Trust/PASB question. The new stand - Kier

Tringreen wrote:

Let's get this straight. This is Andy Symons we're talking about here. The Chair of the AFT and I believe he wasn't elected but was brought onto its management group in troubled times and then later, elected chair by the board. I don't have a problem with that.

Andy joined ATD about 18 months ago I believe ? Newell hates him for some reason and has done from way back [ so he can't be all bad] .

Shortly after Andy and Peggy had joined ATD we had a bit of a crisis one night and the forum was closed down. As a technophobe mod I asked the two of them to join the mod team and help out while the few remaining mods got the site up and running again.
The first annual mod elections the following May were preceded by some falling out in the modroom over the future ethos of ATD. By this time Peggy had stood down from Admin and Andy,who was becoming actively involved with the AFT, also declared his intention not to stand for the mod team.

My own feeling is that he was looking for a way out anyway and once established inside the trust he deleted his account on ATD. The reason given was the new mods refusing to ban 'a known racist' who had not broken any rules on ATD . I believe Penz too, departed. Andy was and still is a friend of Cerbera I believe and I didn't trust either of them for what I perceived their 'ambition' in the Argyle world.

Fast forward to recent times and credit must be given to Andy and the AFT for their 'asking of difficult questions' and the superb work of the AFT WG. Since then however, they have backed off from confrontation with the club and are busying themselves with nostalgia and charity work. They were the only credible fans group capable of leading the opposition but they seemed to 'bottle it'. The conclusion I have reached is that they thought they would be cast out of the club completely and they are almost certainly correct. For me, it was a battle worth fighting and a lot more of the potential support base and the wider public, would have been made aware of the implications for the club of this development in its now approved form.

The fact that Andy now contributes on here as 'AFT' and not as Andy Symons, is not only hypocritical but also undemocratic. We were told that the trust board could not wage the war because its members were split on the issue. The pasb were split too but still managed to have a board vote and went to the press in support of the HHP development.
Posting as the AFT , Andy is now taking a swipe[banter if you like] at an articulate City fan. If he wants to do that personally, fair enough but he shouldn't do it under the AFT banner.

This forum is now being followed and sometimes used by some high profile Argyle fans, as the awareness grows that the club has been stitched up and those who control Pasoti have assisted the process and marginalised all opposition for personal position.

My underlying perception is that the jostling for position at HP far outweighs fighting for what is right for the club.

And there lies the underlying problem, as it has done for the last few years.

I would be concerned as an AFT member (No202) if an individual posted his personal views and thoughts under the banner of AFT......why would other AFT committee members put up with that....assuming that they have some backbone and opinions of their own AS AN ELECTED COMMITTEE and being the fans representive group ?

Let's be fair - the AFT has never really caught on, has it? Brent has truly nullified the group - the whole club is a sesspit from top to bottom, and needs a more radical & confrontational approach from the fans and begs the question was it really worth saving two years ago?

GOB wrote:

I see nothing wrong with a little banter, it was one of the reasons for ATD's existence and can be found on here every day since its creation.

If Andy wants to banter fine do it under his own not the trust. When the trust was set up exeters trust offered support. Poor form.

Jello wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Let's get this straight. This is Andy Symons we're talking about here. The Chair of the AFT and I believe he wasn't elected but was brought onto its management group in troubled times and then later, elected chair by the board. I don't have a problem with that.

Andy joined ATD about 18 months ago I believe ? Newell hates him for some reason and has done from way back [ so he can't be all bad] .

Shortly after Andy and Peggy had joined ATD we had a bit of a crisis one night and the forum was closed down. As a technophobe mod I asked the two of them to join the mod team and help out while the few remaining mods got the site up and running again.
The first annual mod elections the following May were preceded by some falling out in the modroom over the future ethos of ATD. By this time Peggy had stood down from Admin and Andy,who was becoming actively involved with the AFT, also declared his intention not to stand for the mod team.

My own feeling is that he was looking for a way out anyway and once established inside the trust he deleted his account on ATD. The reason given was the new mods refusing to ban 'a known racist' who had not broken any rules on ATD . I believe Penz too, departed. Andy was and still is a friend of Cerbera I believe and I didn't trust either of them for what I perceived their 'ambition' in the Argyle world.

Fast forward to recent times and credit must be given to Andy and the AFT for their 'asking of difficult questions' and the superb work of the AFT WG. Since then however, they have backed off from confrontation with the club and are busying themselves with nostalgia and charity work. They were the only credible fans group capable of leading the opposition but they seemed to 'bottle it'. The conclusion I have reached is that they thought they would be cast out of the club completely and they are almost certainly correct. For me, it was a battle worth fighting and a lot more of the potential support base and the wider public, would have been made aware of the implications for the club of this development in its now approved form.

The fact that Andy now contributes on here as 'AFT' and not as Andy Symons, is not only hypocritical but also undemocratic. We were told that the trust board could not wage the war because its members were split on the issue. The pasb were split too but still managed to have a board vote and went to the press in support of the HHP development.
Posting as the AFT , Andy is now taking a swipe[banter if you like] at an articulate City fan. If he wants to do that personally, fair enough but he shouldn't do it under the AFT banner.

This forum is now being followed and sometimes used by some high profile Argyle fans, as the awareness grows that the club has been stitched up and those who control Pasoti have assisted the process and marginalised all opposition for personal position.

My underlying perception is that the jostling for position at HP far outweighs fighting for what is right for the club.

And there lies the underlying problem, as it has done for the last few years.

Nail on head.

Hugh Watt wrote:

GOB wrote:

I see nothing wrong with a little banter, it was one of the reasons for ATD's existence and can be found on here every day since its creation.

If Andy wants to banter fine do it under his own not the trust. When the trust was set up exeters trust offered support. Poor form.

I'm with Hugh on this one.

It should not have happened and it probably won't again but it's provided a useful stick for those who dislike either Andy or the AFT to beat them with. A brief apology would put this one to bed.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

GOB wrote:

I see nothing wrong with a little banter, it was one of the reasons for ATD's existence and can be found on here every day since its creation.

If Andy wants to banter fine do it under his own not the trust. When the trust was set up exeters trust offered support. Poor form.

I'm with Hugh on this one.

It should not have happened and it probably won't again but it's provided a useful stick for those who dislike either Andy or the AFT to beat them with. A brief apology would put this one to bed.

The irony in that being, as he saw fit to delete his account, he'd have to use the Argyle Fans Trust sign-on to apologize!

Yes. That was the "site" of the indiscretion concerned, too, of course. Where else should an apology be made?

Coxside_Green wrote:

Bringing up St James Park unfortunate predicament in what can only be described as an attack, is childish at best.

Are you mad?

This is a football website with your Cup Final coming up at the weekend, after four years in our shadow your boys need to grab at every straw.

Not surprised to see Gargland is the last bastion against the march of free enterprise.

LT is still seething about us taking 4 points of shitty last season which kept us up  

I also see you're getting a new stand free of charge! The plans look magnificent but obviously there are concerns that you won't be able to fill it every week.

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That's what he is so angry about, even our shit mini stand will make Sid James look like A piss stained sofa.

Greenjock wrote:

LT is still seething about us taking 4 points of shitty last season which kept us up  

I also see you're getting a new stand free of charge! The plans look magnificent but obviously there are concerns that you won't be able to fill it every week.

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You forgot the banqueting facility!

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In view of Mr Brent's claim that one of the most important reasons for building the new stand is to provide better women's toilets, maybe Exeter should take a leaf out of our book.  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

You forgot the banqueting facility!

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Now why would anybody spend out on that when they could have this?

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Thought that was Brent's new Fanfest facility/supporters bar offering.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Thought that was Brent's new Fanfest facility/supporters bar offering.

I'm sure there will be plenty of ever so eager to please volunteers ready to fit it out. Thank you oh reluctant one. We are not worthy  

That's more like it boys, feck all this Socialist crap, your Cup Final is coming up Saturday, you should be hating us not some firm who will be building the Diddy Stand having won what I am certain will have been a totally fair tender.

Actually a have a soft spot for Exeter City and their fans. ..... A Dartmoor Bog

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

It should not have happened and it probably won't again but it's provided a useful stick for those who dislike either Andy or the AFT to beat them with. A brief apology would put this one to bed.

I don't need an apology for it to be put to bed. The comment itself didn't bother me - I've received and given worse. However I hope whoever posted it has taken on board some of the reaction and that on reflection he appreciates that it was rash and unprofessional to post pejorative comments about any other club - even ECFC - under the banner of the AFT. Given the febrile politics and the cynical manipulation that is going at PAFC, certain individuals will use - and indeed have used - any ammunition they can to discredit the AFT as a voice for the fans. The last thing the AFT needs is for it's own officials to do its enemies' dirty work for them.

The likes of John Petrie, Gareth Nicholson, Babbaracuda and especially Graham Clark and John Lloyd give excellent examples of the way to conduct yourself in the present situation. Reading Ian Newell try to tangle with Graham Clark on PASOTI is as hugely entertaining as it was to see Richard Dunn try to lay a glove on Muhammad Ali. Clark never loses his cool, or rises to any of the sly digs and barbs that come his way, but instead makes clear, forensic and dispassionate arguments with the facts to back them up. You can almost feel Newell's intense frustration at not being able to lay a bead on him radiate through your computer screen.

As far as I can see a strong and credible AFT is the best hope for the post-Brent era and so it deserves the support of all concerned fans. That doesn't mean that support should be uncritical, but neither should it mean beating the AFT over the head because it can't please all of the people all of the time and does some things you disagree with.

By the way, whatever happened to Babbaracuda? I hope he wasn't intimdated in the disgusting way John Petrie seems to have been.

Don't forget the farpost building came from Exeter

I feel Babs is still very much with "us"  

jabba the gut ecfc wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

It should not have happened and it probably won't again but it's provided a useful stick for those who dislike either Andy or the AFT to beat them with. A brief apology would put this one to bed.

I don't need an apology for it to be put to bed. The comment itself didn't bother me - I've received and given worse. However I hope whoever posted it has taken on board some of the reaction and that on reflection he appreciates that it was rash and unprofessional to post pejorative comments about any other club - even ECFC - under the banner of the AFT. Given the febrile politics and the cynical manipulation that is going at PAFC, certain individuals will use - and indeed have used - any ammunition they can to discredit the AFT as a voice for the fans. The last thing the AFT needs is for it's own officials to do its enemies' dirty work for them.

The likes of John Petrie, Gareth Nicholson, Babbaracuda and especially Graham Clark and John Lloyd give excellent examples of the way to conduct yourself in the present situation. Reading Ian Newell try to tangle with Graham Clark on PASOTI is as hugely entertaining as it was to see Richard Dunn try to lay a glove on Muhammad Ali. Clark never loses his cool, or rises to any of the sly digs and barbs that come his way, but instead makes clear, forensic and dispassionate arguments with the facts to back them up. You can almost feel Newell's intense frustration at not being able to lay a bead on him radiate through your computer screen.

As far as I can see a strong and credible AFT is the best hope for the post-Brent era and so it deserves the support of all concerned fans. That doesn't mean that support should be uncritical, but neither should it mean beating the AFT over the head because it can't please all of the people all of the time and does some things you disagree with.

By the way, whatever happened to Babbaracuda? I hope he wasn't intimdated in the disgusting way John Petrie seems to have been.

 

Greenskin wrote:

jabba the gut ecfc wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

It should not have happened and it probably won't again but it's provided a useful stick for those who dislike either Andy or the AFT to beat them with. A brief apology would put this one to bed.

I don't need an apology for it to be put to bed. The comment itself didn't bother me - I've received and given worse. However I hope whoever posted it has taken on board some of the reaction and that on reflection he appreciates that it was rash and unprofessional to post pejorative comments about any other club - even ECFC - under the banner of the AFT. Given the febrile politics and the cynical manipulation that is going at PAFC, certain individuals will use - and indeed have used - any ammunition they can to discredit the AFT as a voice for the fans. The last thing the AFT needs is for it's own officials to do its enemies' dirty work for them.

The likes of John Petrie, Gareth Nicholson, Babbaracuda and especially Graham Clark and John Lloyd give excellent examples of the way to conduct yourself in the present situation. Reading Ian Newell try to tangle with Graham Clark on PASOTI is as hugely entertaining as it was to see Richard Dunn try to lay a glove on Muhammad Ali. Clark never loses his cool, or rises to any of the sly digs and barbs that come his way, but instead makes clear, forensic and dispassionate arguments with the facts to back them up. You can almost feel Newell's intense frustration at not being able to lay a bead on him radiate through your computer screen.

As far as I can see a strong and credible AFT is the best hope for the post-Brent era and so it deserves the support of all concerned fans. That doesn't mean that support should be uncritical, but neither should it mean beating the AFT over the head because it can't please all of the people all of the time and does some things you disagree with.

By the way, whatever happened to Babbaracuda? I hope he wasn't intimdated in the disgusting way John Petrie seems to have been.

 

I heard he was pitching for a Dry Cleaning concession in one of the new retail oulets underneath the new diddy stand - next to the Business Lounge.

knecht wrote:

In view of Mr Brent's claim that one of the most important reasons for building the new stand is to provide better women's toilets, maybe Exeter should take a leaf out of our book.  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

That is a friggin classic knecht - talk about outside loo!! Hahahahah!!

Greenskin wrote:

jabba the gut ecfc wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

It should not have happened and it probably won't again but it's provided a useful stick for those who dislike either Andy or the AFT to beat them with. A brief apology would put this one to bed.

I don't need an apology for it to be put to bed. The comment itself didn't bother me - I've received and given worse. However I hope whoever posted it has taken on board some of the reaction and that on reflection he appreciates that it was rash and unprofessional to post pejorative comments about any other club - even ECFC - under the banner of the AFT. Given the febrile politics and the cynical manipulation that is going at PAFC, certain individuals will use - and indeed have used - any ammunition they can to discredit the AFT as a voice for the fans. The last thing the AFT needs is for it's own officials to do its enemies' dirty work for them.

The likes of John Petrie, Gareth Nicholson, Babbaracuda and especially Graham Clark and John Lloyd give excellent examples of the way to conduct yourself in the present situation. Reading Ian Newell try to tangle with Graham Clark on PASOTI is as hugely entertaining as it was to see Richard Dunn try to lay a glove on Muhammad Ali. Clark never loses his cool, or rises to any of the sly digs and barbs that come his way, but instead makes clear, forensic and dispassionate arguments with the facts to back them up. You can almost feel Newell's intense frustration at not being able to lay a bead on him radiate through your computer screen.

As far as I can see a strong and credible AFT is the best hope for the post-Brent era and so it deserves the support of all concerned fans. That doesn't mean that support should be uncritical, but neither should it mean beating the AFT over the head because it can't please all of the people all of the time and does some things you disagree with.

By the way, whatever happened to Babbaracuda? I hope he wasn't intimdated in the disgusting way John Petrie seems to have been.

 

What have I missed?