Do not let this happen

Subject: Do not let this happen Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:23 pm

Quote:

My take on it is.

PASB for PAFC issues and AFT for general football issues.

Win/win I'd say.

http://www.pasoti.co.uk/talk/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=69456&start=15

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. If this was to come about then there is no point in an ARGYLE fans trust at all. Win/Win? More like Lose/Lose because the AFT would simply die. Unless that the general idea. Which it probably is.

THIS MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN.

Subject: Re: Do not let this happen Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:30 pm

Do what Newell says not to.

Always.

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Subject: Re: Do not let this happen Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:42 pm

Mock Cuncher wrote:

Do what Newell says not to.

Always.

Why? He's come out and declared his support for The Trust Laughing

Guest

Greenjock wrote:

Mock Cuncher wrote:

Do what Newell says not to.

Always.

Why? He's come out and declared his support for The Trust Laughing

Only because it turns out his mate the Pres was always unhappy with the idea of the GASBoard, though.

Oh - and agree with Sir Frankie. Not only is it an Argyle fans' trust, but the idea of splitting things like that would guarantee the end of it.

Guest

A good strap line that Mocko.
The intention was always to put a REAL supporters' Trust out into the hypothetical think tank long grass, while the contingency bunch run the fan input at Argyle. That's why they are so up for the Trust being saddled in finding 400K for penniless Harry. One would have thought Pasoti would have been put in charge of the fund raising for such a one sided fund raising exercise.... they've got the experience.

They'll try anything. If they can't sideline the Trust, they'll try and take it over by hook or by crook. It isn't going to get better anytime soon. I feel so sad for the club I have supported for so many years that some people have these sort of agendas.
An excellent strong post from Keepitgreen on Pasoti on the subject... and they don't come more Argyle than him.

Subject: Re: Do not let this happen Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:55 pm

Peggy wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

Mock Cuncher wrote:

Do what Newell says not to.

Always.

Why? He's come out and declared his support for The Trust Laughing

Only because it turns out his mate the Pres was always unhappy with the idea of the GASBoard, though.

Oh - and agree with Sir Frankie. Not only is it an Argyle fans' trust, but the idea of splitting things like that would guarantee the end of it.

It's a shame Chris wasn't as good as his word then, as he always said if he disagreed with anything JB did he would be giving him earache like in the old days of the war!

Posts: 6396 Join date: 2011-10-02

Greenjock wrote:

.......
It's a shame Chris wasn't as good as his word then, as he always said if he disagreed with anything JB did he would be giving him earache like in the old days of the war!

Beat me to it, Jock.

Guest

I think he said he tried to talk to James (that's what he called him) about it, but he couldn't get him to listen. Or something.

Excellent negotiating skills, clearly.

Posts: 278 Join date: 2012-01-23

Surely the vast majority of members joined the Trust to demonstrate how important Argyle was to them - this strength was given as one of the reasons James decided to go ahead and buy the club.

Matters like safe standing, maximum wage, SKY deals etc - which Ian seems to think the Trust should now be concentrating on - were (and I guess still) are of little importance to most people.

Subject: Re: Do not let this happen Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:43 pm

Dingle wrote:

Surely the vast majority of members joined the Trust to demonstrate how important Argyle was to them - this strength was given as one of the reasons James decided to go ahead and buy the club.

Matters like safe standing, maximum wage, SKY deals etc - which Ian seems to think the Trust should now be concentrating on - were (and I guess still) are of little importance to most people.

Theres nothing wrong with any of those campaigns and theres nothing wrong with the trust supporting them but they should be a sideline and not the only line of trust activity. And if somebody wants to support safe standing then the safe standing campaign is the best thing to sign up up to.

Posts: 29 Join date: 2012-05-16 Location: Plymouth

Peggy wrote:

I think he said he tried to talk to James (that's what he called him) about it, but he couldn't get him to listen. Or something.

Excellent negotiating skills, clearly.

No wonder the unions are so weak.

Posts: 346 Join date: 2012-01-06

Dingle wrote:

Surely the vast majority of members joined the Trust to demonstrate how important Argyle was to them - this strength was given as one of the reasons James decided to go ahead and buy the club.

Matters like safe standing, maximum wage, SKY deals etc - which Ian seems to think the Trust should now be concentrating on - were (and I guess still) are of little importance to most people.

Issues like football governance, safe standing, etc are still very important. I believe the select committee is meeting again this month to discuss the football authorities' reaction to its proposals. Supporters Direct (the parent organisation of some 170-odd supporter trusts) and the Football Supporters Federation are both playing leading roles in that.

Tim

Posts: 863 Join date: 2012-01-08 Location: Laaaanson

Peggy wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

Mock Cuncher wrote:

Do what Newell says not to.

Always.

Why? He's come out and declared his support for The Trust Laughing

Only because it turns out his mate the Pres was always unhappy with the idea of the GASBoard, though.

Oh - and agree with Sir Frankie. Not only is it an Argyle fans' trust, but the idea of splitting things like that would guarantee the end of it.

And that's only because the GAS board has been met with blanket indifference. Wonder what the next move is?

Posts: 278 Join date: 2012-01-23

I didn't mean to imply that other matters weren't important - just that the main point (in my case anyway) of joining the ARGYLE Fans'Trust was to demonstrate support for my team.

I also found IJN's comments implying that those who were anti the Hot Air Society did nothing to help the club when it was in trouble both patronising and inaccurate.

Subject: Re: Do not let this happen Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:12 pm

Dingle wrote:

I didn't mean to imply that other matters weren't important - just that the main point (in my case anyway) of joining the ARGYLE Fans'Trust was to demonstrate support for my team.

I also found IJN's comments implying that those who were anti the Hot Air Society did nothing to help the club when it was in trouble both patronising and inaccurate.

I also found those comments unnecessary and have just posted over there to ask him to stop dividing the Green Army into those that did and those that didn't, in his eyes. It's unhelpful and impolite to fellow Green's to keep banging this drum, IMHO.

Posts: 346 Join date: 2012-01-06

Dingle wrote:

I didn't mean to imply that other matters weren't important - just that the main point (in my case anyway) of joining the ARGYLE Fans'Trust was to demonstrate support for my team.

Absolutely. And that's about the objects that all supporters trusts share, if they use the Supporters Direct model rules, as also posted to Pasoti:

* being the democratic and representative voice of the supporters of the Club and strengthening the bonds between the Club and the communities which it serves;

* achieving the greatest possible supporter and community influence in the running and ownership of the Club;

* promoting responsible and constructive community engagement by present and future members of the communities served by the Club and encouraging the Club to do the same;

* operating democratically, fairly, sustainably, transparently and with financial responsibility and encouraging the Club to do the same;

* being a positive, inclusive and representative organisation, open and accessible to all supporters of the Club regardless of their age, income, ethnicity, gender, disability, sexuality or religious or moral belief.

Campaigning for the "bigger issues" in football comes to a large extent through being a member of Supporters Direct. Their football licensing proposals include a graduated engagement of fans with their clubs through supporters trusts. You can read more about that here:

http://clients.squareeye.net/uploads/sd/Licensing_Proposal_A.pdf

Tim

Subject: Re: Do not let this happen Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:38 am

Tim Chown wrote:

Dingle wrote:

I didn't mean to imply that other matters weren't important - just that the main point (in my case anyway) of joining the ARGYLE Fans'Trust was to demonstrate support for my team.

Absolutely. And that's about the objects that all supporters trusts share, if they use the Supporters Direct model rules, as also posted to Pasoti:

* being the democratic and representative voice of the supporters of the Club and strengthening the bonds between the Club and the communities which it serves;

* achieving the greatest possible supporter and community influence in the running and ownership of the Club;

* promoting responsible and constructive community engagement by present and future members of the communities served by the Club and encouraging the Club to do the same;

* operating democratically, fairly, sustainably, transparently and with financial responsibility and encouraging the Club to do the same;

* being a positive, inclusive and representative organisation, open and accessible to all supporters of the Club regardless of their age, income, ethnicity, gender, disability, sexuality or religious or moral belief.

Campaigning for the "bigger issues" in football comes to a large extent through being a member of Supporters Direct. Their football licensing proposals include a graduated engagement of fans with their clubs through supporters trusts. You can read more about that here:

http://clients.squareeye.net/uploads/sd/Licensing_Proposal_A.pdf

Tim

Thanks Tim for highlighting these rules, much appreciated. - Phil.

Guest

Bogsider wrote:

Peggy wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

Mock Cuncher wrote:

Do what Newell says not to.

Always.

Why? He's come out and declared his support for The Trust Laughing

Only because it turns out his mate the Pres was always unhappy with the idea of the GASBoard, though.

Oh - and agree with Sir Frankie. Not only is it an Argyle fans' trust, but the idea of splitting things like that would guarantee the end of it.

And that's only because the GAS board has been met with blanket indifference. Wonder what the next move is?

I think if you wanted to promote a new idea the first thing you would do is put in place a team to enact your policy. As a prerquisite, you ensure they are "onside" with the idea to take it forward enthusiastically.

Conversely, the opposite is also true.

I wonder what happeened here?

Posts: 2104 Join date: 2011-12-02

Tim Chown wrote:

Dingle wrote:

I didn't mean to imply that other matters weren't important - just that the main point (in my case anyway) of joining the ARGYLE Fans'Trust was to demonstrate support for my team.

Absolutely. And that's about the objects that all supporters trusts share, if they use the Supporters Direct model rules, as also posted to Pasoti:

* being the democratic and representative voice of the supporters of the Club and strengthening the bonds between the Club and the communities which it serves;

* achieving the greatest possible supporter and community influence in the running and ownership of the Club;

* promoting responsible and constructive community engagement by present and future members of the communities served by the Club and encouraging the Club to do the same;

* operating democratically, fairly, sustainably, transparently and with financial responsibility and encouraging the Club to do the same;

* being a positive, inclusive and representative organisation, open and accessible to all supporters of the Club regardless of their age, income, ethnicity, gender, disability, sexuality or religious or moral belief.

Campaigning for the "bigger issues" in football comes to a large extent through being a member of Supporters Direct. Their football licensing proposals include a graduated engagement of fans with their clubs through supporters trusts. You can read more about that here:

http://clients.squareeye.net/uploads/sd/Licensing_Proposal_A.pdf

Tim

If the club didn't have a Trust these would be a good set of objectives for a supporters board. As the club does have a Trust a supporters board is totally superfluous.

Subject: Re: Do not let this happen Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:44 pm

Dougie wrote:

Tim Chown wrote:

Dingle wrote:

I didn't mean to imply that other matters weren't important - just that the main point (in my case anyway) of joining the ARGYLE Fans'Trust was to demonstrate support for my team.

Absolutely. And that's about the objects that all supporters trusts share, if they use the Supporters Direct model rules, as also posted to Pasoti:

* being the democratic and representative voice of the supporters of the Club and strengthening the bonds between the Club and the communities which it serves;

* achieving the greatest possible supporter and community influence in the running and ownership of the Club;

* promoting responsible and constructive community engagement by present and future members of the communities served by the Club and encouraging the Club to do the same;

* operating democratically, fairly, sustainably, transparently and with financial responsibility and encouraging the Club to do the same;

* being a positive, inclusive and representative organisation, open and accessible to all supporters of the Club regardless of their age, income, ethnicity, gender, disability, sexuality or religious or moral belief.

Campaigning for the "bigger issues" in football comes to a large extent through being a member of Supporters Direct. Their football licensing proposals include a graduated engagement of fans with their clubs through supporters trusts. You can read more about that here:

http://clients.squareeye.net/uploads/sd/Licensing_Proposal_A.pdf

Tim

If the club didn't have a Trust these would be a good set of objectives for a supporters board. As the club does have a Trust a supporters board is totally superfluous.

I wish people would stop using posh words us goats have trouble opening a thesaurus you know! Shocked

This whole GAS/PAS B thing is just a joke.

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Subject: Re: Do not let this happen Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:04 pm

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

Dougie wrote:

Tim Chown wrote:

Dingle wrote:

I didn't mean to imply that other matters weren't important - just that the main point (in my case anyway) of joining the ARGYLE Fans'Trust was to demonstrate support for my team.

Absolutely. And that's about the objects that all supporters trusts share, if they use the Supporters Direct model rules, as also posted to Pasoti:

* being the democratic and representative voice of the supporters of the Club and strengthening the bonds between the Club and the communities which it serves;

* achieving the greatest possible supporter and community influence in the running and ownership of the Club;

* promoting responsible and constructive community engagement by present and future members of the communities served by the Club and encouraging the Club to do the same;

* operating democratically, fairly, sustainably, transparently and with financial responsibility and encouraging the Club to do the same;

* being a positive, inclusive and representative organisation, open and accessible to all supporters of the Club regardless of their age, income, ethnicity, gender, disability, sexuality or religious or moral belief.

Campaigning for the "bigger issues" in football comes to a large extent through being a member of Supporters Direct. Their football licensing proposals include a graduated engagement of fans with their clubs through supporters trusts. You can read more about that here:

http://clients.squareeye.net/uploads/sd/Licensing_Proposal_A.pdf

Tim

If the club didn't have a Trust these would be a good set of objectives for a supporters board. As the club does have a Trust a supporters board is totally superfluous.

I wish people would stop using posh words us goats have trouble opening a thesaurus you know! Shocked

This whole GAS/PAS B thing is just a joke.

Ah the ones who are so vocal and anti the PASB are the ones who did feck all in the trenches last year Sleep

Subject: Re: Do not let this happen Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:14 pm

Once a rational argument has been lost the endless turning back to "my club right or wrong" or "what did you do in the war" reminds me of old Sam Johnson's quote :-

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

Posts: 29 Join date: 2012-05-16 Location: Plymouth

Charlie Wood wrote:

Once a rational argument has been lost the endless turning back to "my club right or wrong" or "what did you do in the war" reminds me of old Sam Johnson's quote :-

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

Quite right Charlie.

I might add that a good section of the silent majority helped in other ways like, joined the Trust, attended meetings, marched, filled collecting buckets, supported the vigil, attended fan fests etc etc. Many, many supporters helped the staff and contributed towards saving the Club - it was a magnificent team effort.

Posts: 4945 Join date: 2012-02-21

Charlie Wood wrote:

Once a rational argument has been lost the endless turning back to "my club right or wrong" or "what did you do in the war" reminds me of old Sam Johnson's quote :-

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

The thing is, those tossers actually believe their own spin.

Guest

Greenrod wrote:

Charlie Wood wrote:

Once a rational argument has been lost the endless turning back to "my club right or wrong" or "what did you do in the war" reminds me of old Sam Johnson's quote :-

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

Quite right Charlie.

I might add that a good section of the silent majority helped in other ways like, joined the Trust, attended meetings, marched, filled collecting buckets, supported the vigil, attended fan fests etc etc. Many, many supporters helped the staff and contributed towards saving the Club - it was a magnificent team effort.

Indeed.

Not everyone who helped the staff felt the need to crow about it on pasoti. And in my view anyone who put even a couple of quid in a bucket was doing their bit to help the club survive.

Who has the right to decide whether one person's contribution is more valuable than anothers? Is a £20 donation from a retiree on a basic state pension any more or less valuable than the thousands 'nikkk' has pledged?

Now I know that Mr Newell is starstruck by anyone who has even the slightest hint of wealth, but this club has a worth beyond money to thousands of people - it's a shame that Mr Newell can't recognise that and insists on playing the 'what did you do in the war' routine every time someone says or does something critical of himself or the other self-appointed 'fans leaders'.

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Do not let this happen

Do not let this happen

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