Greg Clarke article - bit on Argyle / JB

Greenskin wrote:

It wasn't actually my view at all,Chris.With due acknowlegement to the Argyle Vital website,this is what he said ;


8th March:
When would the sale be completed? Guilfoyle replied: 'By the end of the season. In some respects it's relatively straightforward. A lot of the work has been done by Ridsdale and Hinchliffe.
'They have identified the purchasers so I don't think I have to go through marketing or produce an information memorandum.

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And the Club was finally sold in October. so a lot of twists and turns took place after this and you are aware of that.....I know you don't want to be wrong GS but using Guilfoyle quotes to back up your case is really stretching it....

"Swansea and Blackpool have shown that it can be done wiithout actually spending that much". Define "that much". Blackpool were obviously prepared to pay much bigger money than we were for Charlie Adam and they spent £20m above income to get promoted. £20m which Oyston clawed back out of the first, and so far only, PL season. I know Swansea paid £500k for Scott Sinclair (they obviously didn't fancy Steve McLean) and I suspect they shelled out good transfer fees, and wages, for others too. On top of which Swansea were heavily subsidised by the council up there in a complicated deal that saw The Vetch get sold and the new stadium built. Neither of them got promoted spending buttons.

Mr President wrote:

Greenskin wrote:

It wasn't actually my view at all,Chris.With due acknowlegement to the Argyle Vital website,this is what he said ;


8th March:
When would the sale be completed? Guilfoyle replied: 'By the end of the season. In some respects it's relatively straightforward. A lot of the work has been done by Ridsdale and Hinchliffe.
'They have identified the purchasers so I don't think I have to go through marketing or produce an information memorandum.

Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And the Club was finally sold in October. so a lot of twists and turns took place after this and you are aware of that.....I know you don't want to be wrong GS but using Guilfoyle quotes to back up your case is really stretching it....

So did he go through marketing or produce an information memorandum between March and October?

Mr President wrote:

What I would never support though is the view that any investment is good and warrants immediate acceptance. I won't name names because its been done but it is clear that amongst the M7 there were people who had 'bought' their way onto the board.

Did I just read that ? I must have done.
Where on earth has any Argyle fan, businessman, politician, ever immediately accepted an offer of anything ? That's just a pointless statement.
However you're right Chris, certain people did buy themselves onto the board of the football club previously..... just like they have always done. Is the present 'walleted' owner any different in that regard ? And why would a 'walleted' owner not want more of his 'walleted' kind to share the onerous burden of this great community project ?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

"Swansea and Blackpool have shown that it can be done wiithout actually spending that much". Define "that much". Blackpool were obviously prepared to pay much bigger money than we were for Charlie Adam and they spent £20m above income to get promoted. £20m which Oyston clawed back out of the first, and so far only, PL season. I know Swansea paid £500k for Scott Sinclair (they obviously didn't fancy Steve McLean) and I suspect they shelled out good transfer fees, and wages, for others too. On top of which Swansea were heavily subsidised by the council up there in a complicated deal that saw The Vetch get sold and the new stadium built. Neither of them got promoted spending buttons.

Certainly not Saudi billionaire class.And can you show me the accounts where Blackpool supposedly paid £20m above income to get to the premiership?

No. I can show you press reports that show that Oyston reclaimed £20m to cover loans that had been made in the past though. Will that do?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

No. I can show you press reports that show that Oyston reclaimed £20m to cover loans that had been made in the past though. Will that do?

No.

Sorry the £20m was completely wrong.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Sorry the £20m was completely wrong.

It was actually £23m and Blackpool were promoted after paying £12m p.a. in wages alone. Not bad with a maximimum capacity of 9000.

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Sir Francis Drake wrote:

It was actually £23m and Blackpool were promoted after paying £12m p.a. in wages alone. Not bad with a maximimum capacity of 9000.

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Fair cop.Not sure where £12m would have put Blackpool in the CCC salaries comparative table at the time though and it doesn't alter the fact that if Argyle ever do get to the second tier again,adequate investment will be needed to maintain momentum and build a club and fanbase which would be far greater than Blackpool's ever could be.

Maybe. Blackpool only just scraped into the play-offs that season. I know they went up but what if they had not? How is a club supposed to support a £12m wage bill with an average attendance of well under 9000? It can't. Just like Burnley before them they were saved from what befell us by getting promoted. It's a huge gamble. After all we have been through I'd prefer that we did not take such agamble and if that means that I'm seen as a Staplewallet lover with no ambition then that is OK with to me. I want us to be successful but I don't want to see us achieve that success at any price. I wonder how Pompey fans now feel about winning the FA Cup and signing players like DeFoe, Crouch, Campbell? Is that what we want for Argyle? I hope not. It's not what I want anyway. I want a team and club I can be comfortable and proud about supporting. Of the other teams mentioned in this thread maybe Swansea can say that but I'm not so sure about Pompey or Blackpool.

I would have thought that £12m on a squad of around 20 players giving them from lowest to highest between £10k and £15k a week would have been quite high up on the wages scale for the Championship.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Maybe. Blackpool only just scraped into the play-offs that season. I know they went up but what if they had not? How is a club supposed to support a £12m wage bill with an average attendance of well under 9000? It can't. Just like Burnley before them they were saved from what befell us by getting promoted. It's a huge gamble. After all we have been through I'd prefer that we did not take such agamble and if that means that I'm seen as a Staplewallet lover with no ambition then that is OK with to me. I want us to be successful but I don't want to see us achieve that success at any price. I wonder how Pompey fans now feel about winning the FA Cup and signing players like DeFoe, Crouch, Campbell? Is that what we want for Argyle? I hope not. It's not what I want anyway. I want a team and club I can be comfortable and proud about supporting. Of the other teams mentioned in this thread maybe Swansea can say that but I'm not so sure about Pompey or Blackpool.

Well fairly obviously it was supported by the Oyston's and the Latvian bloke who joined in the fun.Who knows how long they would have supported the club financially had they not gone up? Same with Burnley.Fact is they did go up and its also a fact that another clutch of clubs have now left us standing,the same as in years gone by,Coventry,Ipswich,Southampton,Palace,Norwich,QPR etc did.And on the subject of Pompey,if you ask me if their model was one which i would like to have seen at Argyle,the answer is no.On the other hand,they have had their bit of glory and seen some great players playing at their club-all we got out of our slide into disaster was a pants jazzing session about finishing 10th in the CCC.I honestly don't know how Pompey fans feel-it may be an iidea to ask them if they'd liked to have swapped places with us 8 years ago if they knew what the outcome was going to be.And i'll bet any money you want that in say 5 years time,they'll occupy a higher league position than us.

PS,you're not Baba by any chance are you? Just a thought ,like.

Yes that thought occured to me. Very similar posting styles.....

Greenskin wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Maybe. Blackpool only just scraped into the play-offs that season. I know they went up but what if they had not? How is a club supposed to support a £12m wage bill with an average attendance of well under 9000? It can't. Just like Burnley before them they were saved from what befell us by getting promoted. It's a huge gamble. After all we have been through I'd prefer that we did not take such agamble and if that means that I'm seen as a Staplewallet lover with no ambition then that is OK with to me. I want us to be successful but I don't want to see us achieve that success at any price. I wonder how Pompey fans now feel about winning the FA Cup and signing players like DeFoe, Crouch, Campbell? Is that what we want for Argyle? I hope not. It's not what I want anyway. I want a team and club I can be comfortable and proud about supporting. Of the other teams mentioned in this thread maybe Swansea can say that but I'm not so sure about Pompey or Blackpool.

Well fairly obviously it was supported by the Oyston's and the Latvian bloke who joined in the fun.Who knows how long they would have supported the club financially had they not gone up? Same with Burnley.Fact is they did go up and its also a fact that another clutch of clubs have now left us standing,the same as in years gone by,Coventry,Ipswich,Southampton,Palace,Norwich,QPR etc did.And on the subject of Pompey,if you ask me if their model was one which i would like to have seen at Argyle,the answer is no.On the other hand,they have had their bit of glory and seen some great players playing at their club-all we got out of our slide into disaster was a pants jazzing session about finishing 10th in the CCC.I honestly don't know how Pompey fans feel-it may be an iidea to ask them if they'd liked to have swapped places with us 8 years ago if they knew what the outcome was going to be.And i'll bet any money you want that in say 5 years time,they'll occupy a higher league position than us.

PS,you're not Baba by any chance are you? Just a thought ,like.

...............Weird how/why people feel the need to hide innit ?

What's wrong with my new avatar Chris ? Thought I was looking well ripped !

oddball wrote:

Yes that thought occured to me. Very similar posting styles.....

Me too. Not quite as similar as Ghost and IJN though.

When it comes to valuing the Club, JB certainly has rose tinted (no Greentints) glasses if his estimation of £4000,000 for 205 of a club with nothing but debts and a tenancy is anything to go by.

I'd like to how he could justify that valuation when all the football's got is "millions in liabilities"

Ah well, no Chairman lasts for ever, so we just need to tough it out until the next one comes along-or the Administrators get called in again!

I can't be arsed to reply to individual posts and no one seems to read what I write anyway but;
JB bought the club with no money, he didn't even pay the compulsory football league bond, therefore anybody could have bought the club in the same fashion, even Heaney. As JB has stated he isn't going to bankroll the club then it stands to reason that someone with no money could also have refused to bankroll the club (the fact that you don't have money makes no difference if you are not going to part with money that you have?) The only reason that Heaney didn't buy the club is that he foolishly believed that you needed the money to buy the club, oh and the dogs of war (still makes me larf like feck, dogs of war, it was then that I realised some people were taking themselves too seriously.) I have always had misgivings about Brent, I would have made my feelings made known a lot more at the time if certain people hadn't begged me not to and stressed that my actions could jepordise the future of the club. Anyhow, anybody could have bought the club as you didn't need money to buy it, the fact that the DOW frightened off other buyers (as Brenda has said on record) should not now be re-written in history as there were no other buyers around.
Personally I give it until the middle of next season for people to realise that although Brent is a nice guy and he may or may not have saved the club from folding he has not the knowledge or the determination to take the club forward from league 2, all the Janners in the world have wished we were in the prem. for donkeys years but wishes don't buy players, chairmen do.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

It was actually £23m and Blackpool were promoted after paying £12m p.a. in wages alone. Not bad with a maximimum capacity of 9000.

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How much of that £12m was 'promotion bonuses'?. The following article would suggest £5m was paid in bonuses meaning the actual wages paid was £7m.

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Coxside_Green wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

It was actually £23m and Blackpool were promoted after paying £12m p.a. in wages alone. Not bad with a maximimum capacity of 9000.

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How much of that £12m was 'promotion bonuses'?. The following article would suggest £5m was paid in bonuses meaning the actual wages paid was £7m.

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As any ambitious and non village chairman would offer.

The £5m could just as easily be added on to the £12m as taken from it. That article does not make it clear.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The £5m could just as easily be added on to the £12m as taken from it. That article does not make it clear.

So i was right to ask for definitive accounts to be produced after all,then.Not such a fair cop.