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Hugh Watt



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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 29, 2019 8:28 am

Grovehill wrote:
Lowe knew what the gates were and should have known what sort of fees and wages the club could afford. But has any manager ever told his chairman that they were overspending-more likely they are pestering the Board for more money just to buy that "special" player that will make all the difference-then asking again three months later.

 Lowe seems to have been determined to get certain players in over the summer without bothering to move many out. So he now has a bigger squad than most in this league and every chance of being stuck with players who are not good enough and no one will take them off his hands. Or, nearly as bad, players on 2 or 3 year contracts who won't be good enough in a higher league.

It is noticeable that very few ex Bury players moved to a higher league this summer, so presumably, were judged by most teams as not good enough to step up-even when available for nothing!

That's all conjecture Grovey but again its not Lowes responsibility to worry about gates, just to hit the clubs targets with the budget made available. I remember speaking to staff during admin including coaching staff and they did have any clue what was going on.

Their players were good enough to gain promotion and having spent time in both divisions I would say there isn't difference quality wise between lower mid table league 1 and top of league 2, perhaps they wanted to continue working with a manager they like and trust.
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Jethro

Jethro

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 29, 2019 12:00 pm

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Grovehill



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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptyFri Aug 30, 2019 5:19 pm

Spent over £1 miilion on players? At a Fourth Division Club? Don't know what was genereted in player sales but I'd be concerned if PAFC spent that much this season, even after getting half of that for Ladapo.

Biggest concern has to be that after spending all that money, Bury didn't seem to have anyone they could sell to get some money in.
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VillageGreen

VillageGreen

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptyFri Aug 30, 2019 5:44 pm

Bury are considering taking legal action against the EFL for [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That could be interesting should they go down that route.
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Rickler

Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptyFri Aug 30, 2019 5:46 pm

VillageGreen wrote:
Bury are considering taking legal action against the EFL for [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That could be interesting should they go down that route.

Where are Bury going to get the money from to fund a lawsuit? Besides that... They're on a hiding to nowhere.
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Punchdrunk

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptyFri Aug 30, 2019 6:08 pm

VillageGreen wrote:
Bury are considering taking legal action against the EFL for [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That could be interesting should they go down that route.

Represnted by Goldbergs

lol! laugh
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Coxside_Green



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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptyFri Aug 30, 2019 7:17 pm

Grovehill wrote:
Spent over £1 miilion on players? At a Fourth Division Club? Don't know what was genereted in player sales but I'd be concerned if PAFC spent that much this season, even after getting half of that for Ladapo.

Biggest concern has to be that after spending all that money, Bury didn't seem to have anyone they could sell to get some money in.

I read the quoted £1.2-£1.3m as the wage budget. The players he signed were all freebies and loans.
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Grovehill



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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptyFri Aug 30, 2019 9:14 pm

The quote in WMN was "I spent £1.2 million on 10 or 2 players"

Free transfer players on £100,000 in the fourth division?
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Coxside_Green



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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptyFri Aug 30, 2019 9:29 pm

£2k a week average ain't unreasonable, Carey was on over double that.
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Earwegoagain

Earwegoagain

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptyFri Aug 30, 2019 11:03 pm

Grovehill wrote:
Spent over £1 miilion on players? At a Fourth Division Club? Don't know what was genereted in player sales but I'd be concerned if PAFC spent that much this season, even after getting half of that for Ladapo.

Biggest concern has to be that after spending all that money, Bury didn't seem to have anyone they could sell to get some money in.

It doesn't matter whether we spend one million or five million on players this season, the important thing is whether Hallett has the cash to fund the transfers, if he does, which it seems he does then there is no worry aboutvat all. On the other hand if he's hoping to fund one million pounds of transfers via next years pioneer memberships then were fecked. Time will tell like Bury fans and us previously we get feck all say on the running of the club we just wear no. 12.
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Coxside_Green



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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptyFri Aug 30, 2019 11:47 pm

Here's what RL said

Quote :
“I could blow you away with the figures, they were very low,” said Lowe.

“There were players on big money, which I never gave the contracts out to. Previous managers and chairmen did.

“I’ve heard players on £8-9,000 a week, never in a million years, no-one was on that type of money. Even old contracts, nowhere near.

“What was there beforehand I can’t disclose, but I spent around £1.2-£1.3m on 12-13 players and I used the best players I could that were already there.

“That’s not a lot of money. Yes, there were players there on decent enough money but that was out of my control.

“I came in as the manager and was told this is what’s to spend.”

He's clearly talking about wages and not transfer fees, plus there would've been signing on fees, whether they were from the same pot who knows.  An average £100k a year for players you hope to be in the 1st team squad doesn't seem unreasonable for a club whose aim is promotion, whether Bury could afford that was down to the owner not the manager.  No doubt Maynard would've been paid more than Telford, Maynard moved to big spending Mansfield, we signed the cheaper option.  I guess Grovey has gotten so used to Del signing crocks and players who have never kicked a ball before and he's forgotten how a normal club operates.  RL has been given a play-off budget so we're told, considerably more than Brent's 10th place budget the last time we were here and probably less than Mansfield.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if Hallett has found some additional cash previously earmarked 'professional fees' or suchlike to help fund a bigger wage budget.  After 7-8 years of the Bentmare I'm happy to just enjoy a decent start to hopefully a bright new era, if it goes belly up, well that's Argo init.
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Jethro

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 31, 2019 12:36 am

I don't think SH would be the kind of chairman to sanction a contract for someone like an Mpenza.

I don't think RL would as for that either as he's said

“I came in as the manager and was told this is what’s to spend.”

IMO
I hardly think he's gonna spunk said money up the wall on the Mpenza types or the crocks Adams signed up.



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Grovehill



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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 31, 2019 7:30 am

Jethro wrote:
I don't think SH would be the kind of chairman to sanction a contract for someone like an Mpenza.



I didn't think Stapleton would!


Perhaps I'm just cautious because of previous events at Home Park-Chairmen who go from "spend spend spend" to "no more money" overnight and recieving £6 million in transfer fees but going bust anyway-and all of this with so called astute businessmen running the club  



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Flat_Track_Bully

Flat_Track_Bully

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 31, 2019 9:28 am

Think Bury got into financial trouble because the previous owner was bying loads of unsustainable student properties, and then loading the debt onto Bury FC. Dale took over without any reasonable plan for salvaging the situation and it was one of those situations where the debts kept escalating.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I don't think the lesson is about managers overspending. It's about not having your football clubs owned by incompentent property developers, and also keeping close eye on any shady 're-financing' deals that are going on.

Rather than Lowe's spending (which I don't think's been too high given the players we released/sold/lost over the pre-season) what I'm concerned about is whether there might be something ugly from a financial standpoint left over from the Brent era. What really needs looking into is how the new stand has overrun massively in cost despite being a scaled-back version of the original plans. Is our financial future dependent on the stand generating X profit? Are debts from the building of the stand suddenly going to appear on the horizon?

Remember that what got Argyle into administration wasn't player spending, it was the shady financial dealings of the 'magnificent 7' or whatever they called themselves. Lots of money inexplicably swallowed up by the world cup stadium bid, to the extent that we went from a profit making club to one with £ms of debts in the space of a few years, despite barely spending any money on signing players.
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Grovehill



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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 31, 2019 9:37 pm

Have to disagree with you a bit FTB The Stapleton board sold £6 million worth of talent after Holloway left-SEB Gosling, Norris Halmosi etc-then let PS waste it on signing players sight unseen on stupidly expensive long term contracts-MacClean & Walton alone cost £1 million and were  both on 4 year contracts at half a million a year-so those two alone effectively accounted for the £6 million raised from player sales. Add a couple more expensive flops in Mpenza and Marin and you have a club (run by an Accountant) already in trouble before the likes of Gardener (ex Man Utd PLC Chairmen) and the US/Japanese dynamic duo got involved. The Stapleton board only got that lot involved because they saw that they'd already fecked it up and needed their money

The point I've been trying to make is that most football clubs that get into trouble do so because they (usually encouraged by the supporters) start making silly (as in financially unsustainable) signings in the pursuit of success, or just to appease the fans.

Now, PAFC have appointed a manager who seems to be repeating the mistakes as Bury-signing a lot of moderate players, with little or no resale value, in the hope of instant "success" WHILE AT THE SAME TIME funding what could well be a white elephant ground redevelopment that could actually be a drain on finances rather than contributing to profit.

As for the credentials of the new Chairman/owner, he is in exactly the same position as Dan MacCauley was in his first season in charge, bankrolling an inexperienced manager in expectation of an instant bounce back from relegation-and we all know how that ended. Add in the fact that Like the Glazers at Man Utd, he's a US based investment expert and you can understand why I'm counselling a bit of caution
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RegGreen



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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptySun Sep 01, 2019 7:36 am

Earwegoagain wrote:
Grovehill wrote:
Spent over £1 miilion on players? At a Fourth Division Club? Don't know what was genereted in player sales but I'd be concerned if PAFC spent that much this season, even after getting half of that for Ladapo.

Biggest concern has to be that after spending all that money, Bury didn't seem to have anyone they could sell to get some money in.

It doesn't matter whether we spend one million or five million on players this season, the important thing is whether Hallett has the cash to fund the transfers, if he does, which it seems he does then there is no worry aboutvat all. On the other hand if he's hoping to fund one million pounds of transfers via next years pioneer memberships then were fecked. Time will tell like Bury fans and us previously we get feck all say on the running of the club we just wear no. 12.
who knows if hallett is funding the transfers out of his own pocket or it’s all Going on the debt we simply don’t know as accounts are still not forthcoming to see still ..seems we’re still guessing that it’s his money & not going on club debt
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Earwegoagain

Earwegoagain

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson Learned?   Lesson Learned? - Page 2 EmptySun Sep 01, 2019 10:45 am

Grovehill wrote:
Have to disagree with you a bit FTB The Stapleton board sold £6 million worth of talent after Holloway left-SEB Gosling, Norris Halmosi etc-then let PS waste it on signing players sight unseen on stupidly expensive long term contracts-MacClean & Walton alone cost £1 million and were  both on 4 year contracts at half a million a year-so those two alone effectively accounted for the £6 million raised from player sales. Add a couple more expensive flops in Mpenza and Marin and you have a club (run by an Accountant) already in trouble before the likes of Gardener (ex Man Utd PLC Chairmen) and the US/Japanese dynamic duo got involved. The Stapleton board only got that lot involved because they saw that they'd already fecked it up and needed their money

The point I've been trying to make is that most football clubs that get into trouble do so because they (usually encouraged by the supporters) start making silly (as in financially unsustainable) signings in the pursuit of success, or just to appease the fans.

Now, PAFC have appointed a manager who seems to be repeating the mistakes as Bury-signing a lot of moderate players, with little or no resale value, in the hope of instant "success" WHILE AT THE SAME TIME funding what could well be a white elephant ground redevelopment that could actually be a drain on finances rather than contributing to profit.

As for the credentials of the new Chairman/owner, he is in exactly the same position as Dan MacCauley was in his first season in charge, bankrolling an inexperienced manager in expectation of an instant bounce back from relegation-and we all know how that ended. Add in the fact that Like the Glazers at Man Utd, he's a US based investment expert and you can understand why I'm counselling a bit of caution

And what's the solution Grovey? Apart from our £24 a week the club really don't give a feck about us and would no way listen to our concerns if we voiced them, never have, never will, in the meantime shaddup and enjoy the ride.
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