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Greenskin

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PostSubject: Spain v England   Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:40 pm

HT Spain 0 England 3 Shocked

Ripping them apart with pace,creativity and superb finishing! Don't often pay much attention to England matches apart from the World cups and Euros but must admit this has been compulsive viewing.Is this representative of a sea change in the world football pecking order or just a one off performance a la Sven/Owen in Germany? Don't know but it has been impressive.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Spain v England   Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:56 pm

Let's be optimistic for once.

Southgate seems to know exactly what it is that he wants and what is required to succeed at international level and is ruthless enough to set about achieving it.

To that end he has ditched nearly all of the old sweats who have turned up every time for years and filled the team and squad with kids who want to play, want to learn and are unsullied by years of failure and under-achievement.

OK so we had a friendly route through the world cup and were over-reliant on set-pieces but we did OK and it gives us back some pride and some hope for the future and for the first time in what seems like decades we have a tournament that wasn't a disaster and which gives us something to build from.

Factor in the success of the u-17s and so on at youth level and there appears to be a conveyor belt behind it all which will keep the 1st XI on its toes.

It all looks good from here, does it not?
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beesrus

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PostSubject: Re: Spain v England   Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:18 pm

There's always been false dawns. Plenty of time yet for the UK football coaches to get to work to turn Sven's Pele into Rooney. What Ferguson did to Rooney's potential  was a travesty.
If the coaching has changed, then maybe there's hope, but it's all just inter tournament chirp in the meantime. And of course, Spain national teams were always the flattering to deceive dunces until 20 years ago. Maybe they are reverting to type after their dream generation, just like Holland etc. I remember watching Gascoigne's team in the Clifton wipe the deck with a very good Germany team. What happened next ?
I see no kids actually playing football in plymouth. Loads and loads of girls playing rugby though, especially down at Albion/DHS. They're right up for it and very well organised sessions. Impressive. Maybe there's a cultural shift going on. I don't much care, other than I want young souls to enjoy their years of physical sport. The rest is just an industry
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Greenskin

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PostSubject: Re: Spain v England   Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:56 pm

beesrus wrote:
There's always been false dawns. Plenty of time yet for the UK football coaches to get to work to turn Sven's Pele into Rooney. What Ferguson did to Rooney's potential  was a travesty.
If the coaching has changed, then maybe there's hope, but it's all just inter tournament chirp in the meantime. And of course, Spain national teams were always the flattering to deceive dunces until 20 years ago. Maybe they are reverting to type after their dream generation, just like Holland etc. I remember watching Gascoigne's team in the Clifton wipe the deck with a very good Germany team. What happened next ?
I see no kids actually playing football in plymouth. Loads and loads of girls playing rugby though, especially down at Albion/DHS. They're right up for it and very well organised sessions. Impressive. Maybe there's a cultural shift going on. I don't much care, other than I want young souls to enjoy their years of physical sport. The rest is just an industry  

In what way did Ferguson damage Rooney's potential? Never would have been remotely close to Pele as long as he had a hole in his backside,not mobile enough and too muscle bound,in fact he was over rated from the start.Having said that he still didn't have a bad career overall both domestically and internationally,although he never produced the goods at a major tournament which is sometimes the lot of renowned players,Messi being the most recent example.Can't see how Ferguson can be blamed for that,too Calvinist maybe? Certainly didn't seem to affect the development of Beckham,Scholes et al though.

Not sure how the topic drifted on to girls rugby but if you haven't seen any kids playing football in Plymouth then truthfully you can't have looked hard enough.In the Sunday independent each week the DJM league tables are detailed from early age groups up to U18 level and they are very numerous,including a burgeoning girls section-it would appear to be the case that all sports seem to be having problems in keeping people playing after those age groups more than any lack of early interest.

Anyway,England took a right battering second half and just about held on for a 3-2 win.Jury still out.
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Punchdrunk

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PostSubject: Re: Spain v England   Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:00 pm

before tonight I had already purchased my ticket for the Croatia game at wembley in November.

Luton v Argyle on the Saturday
England V Croatia on the Sunday,

Praaaper fan me

laugh jocolor
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beesrus

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PostSubject: Re: Spain v England   Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:13 pm

Calm down skinny, this is ATD, not pasoti, the topic drifts.
Good to see our views on football are as wide as ever,  I must still be on the money.
As for Calvinism, I don't think Ferguson and Manchester can be accused of that, given their expenditure. I think you need to look it up if you're going to keep bringing it into discussions.  Just think Adams, think austerity, think out of bounds medical empathy, staunch work ethic, think brittle authority backed up with fairy tales of bread tomorrow, and you'll be on your way.

Punchy, I remember a van full of us traipsing up to the old Wembley to see Mariner score the winner against Hungary that took England through to the WC finals. The english princess Diana, soon to fall out of favour, was switching on the oxford st lights that night. We were so far away, the pitch looked like a television.
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Greenskin

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PostSubject: Re: Spain v England   Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:53 pm

beesrus wrote:
Calm down skinny, this is ATD, not pasoti, the topic drifts.
Good to see our views on football are as wide as ever,  I must still be on the money.
As for Calvinism, I don't think Ferguson and Manchester can be accused of that, given their expenditure. I think you need to look it up if you're going to keep bringing it into discussions.  Just think Adams, think austerity, think out of bounds medical empathy, staunch work ethic, think brittle authority backed up with fairy tales of bread tomorrow, and you'll be on your way.

Punchy, I remember a van full of us traipsing up to the old Wembley to see Mariner score the winner against Hungary that took England through to the WC finals. The english princess Diana, soon to fall out of favour, was switching on the oxford st lights that night. We were so far away, the pitch looked like a television.

Er, i was calm thanks very much,can't see anything in the post to suggest otherwise.

So in what way did Ferguson damage Rooney's potential? Always ready to be educated in the same way as i now know that Calvinism involves brittle authority and something to do with medical empathy,doubtless that matches the OED or wiki definitions.Nice touch of irony about continually bringing up the subject [Calvinism that is] BTW.
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beesrus

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PostSubject: Re: Spain v England   Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:37 pm

I saw an effervescent slightly deeper bustling take on all comers untamed Mackiesque Everton star become a more of a percentage man, hitting spaces rather than players, back to goal far too often.. He lost the very best of himself in return for just another international forward with the odd flash. He was potentially better than that, a once in a lifetime world beater possiility. Yet Ferguson allowed Giggs to exponentially improve, and arguably Beckham too, gave them their head, they were "nice boys". Not with Rooney, he didn't.  My own theory is there was something in Rooney that Ferguson didn't like. Personalities do come into all professions and conflicts do occur. Potentials are not always fulfilled, or even wanted if clashes occur. Give me a Robson management style any day.
My opinion.


Last edited by beesrus on Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Greenskin

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PostSubject: Re: Spain v England   Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:42 pm

beesrus wrote:
I saw an effervescent slightly deeper bustling take on all comers untamed Mackiesque Everton star become a more of a percentage man, hitting spaces rather than players, back to goal far too often.. He lost the very best of himself in return for just another international forward with the odd flash. He was potentially better than that, a once in a lifetime world beater possiility. Yet Ferguson allowed Giggs to exponentially improve, and arguably Beckham too, gave them their head, they were "nice boys". Not with Rooney, he didn't.  My own theory is there was something in Rooney that Ferguson didn't like. Personalities do come into all professions and conflicts do occur. Potentials are not always fulfilled, or even wanted if clashes occur.
My opinion.

Fair enough.
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