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Earwegoagain



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PostSubject: Carrillion broken Britain.   Wed May 16, 2018 10:34 am

Part of a news story from the BEEB.

In a damning 100-page report, the Work and Pensions and the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy committees said:

• The Big Four accountancy firms were a "cosy club incapable of providing the degree of independent challenge needed"

• Carillion's collapse had exposed "systemic flaws" in corporate Britain and showed regulators were "toothless"

• And warned "Carillion could happen again, and soon"

Rachel Reeves, chair of the business committee, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "The directors are culpable for the mess that Carillion got into and drove the company off a cliff."

She accused them of a "relentless dash for cash" by taking on low-margin contracts which didn't make money.

"And when we had the directors in front of our Select Committee, they seemed to be in total denial about what happened to their company," she said.

What are the directors accused of?
In their report, the two committees called Carillion's rise and fall "a story of recklessness, hubris and greed".





They singled out former directors Richard Adam, Richard Howson and Philip Green for particular scrutiny, saying the men had grown the firm through ill-judged acquisitions while hiding Carillion's financial problems from shareholders.

They added that even as the company publicly began to unravel, the board was "concerned with increasing and protecting generous executive bonuses".

"Long term obligations, such as adequately funding Carillion's pension schemes, were treated with contempt," they said.


Since austerity hit we have looked more and more at these kind of firms to take on the running of all our schools, prisons and public services. Whilst we tighten our belts and see our wages shrink year on year vs the rising cost of living firms like this have been making gravy at our expense. The truth is the government doesn't care because they will all be looking for jobs on the boards when their constituents kick them out or they are embroiled in scandal as most of them are.
I've mentioned before about the level of dividends paid nowadays by firms, it used to be 10% now it's as high as 70 or 80% which the CBI and IMF have been warned are leaving firms dangerously underfunded if they hit any snags. How are they reaping these absolutely huge rewards? By cutting services and overheads including keeping wages down yet there seems to be loadsamoney for these frankly totally incompetent individuals to trouser for themselves.
Before the communist jibes start to flow I will say I don't want a return to 1970's unionism which was a classic example of when the labour/capital balance was way down on one side. However I wholeheartedly believe that the balance is more skewed towards capital now than it was towards Labour in the seventies.
I'm sure there are plenty that will defend these creeps it mirrors the Argyle world at present really, but when will people say they've had enough?
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Wed May 16, 2018 12:56 pm

Firms like Carillion serve very adequately and meet unstated purposes.

Their first task is to splinter the provision of services in the name of competition. By so doing they indirectly wage war on the entire union movement and continue the long-term destruction of trade unionism in this country - something that has been the aim of the Tories ever since 1973 when the miners brought Heath's government down.

The other is to remove direct responsibility, for pretty much anything and everything, away from the minister i/c whichever department is concerned. This stretches all the way from the quality of services provided, the cost for them all the way through to whether they are provided at all or not - and if they can't turn a buck why should they provide them?

In a very minor way James Brent is a perfect example in microcosm. PCC, under Labour control at the time, knew that The Pavs was losing money and would continue to lose money; they probably also knew that the bulk if not all of that loss came from heating the swimming pool. The solution was obvious: close the pool. This solution was politically unpalatable and would have created a huge row so they sold the Pavillions, off-loaded the pool and Brent did the dirty work necessary. Any dissent then becomes his fault not theirs. Job done. Exactly the same applies to Carillion and schools, prisons etc.

Finally they exist as pension fund extensions for ministers. Take Andrew Lansley as a case in point. When he was Minister For Health he already has an interest in various private healthcare providers. As Minister he put through the bill that opened up the NHS (even further) to privatisation. On being booted out he leaves to take up directorships in the private health provision industry never to be heard of again. Except he was heard of when it turned out that he had bowel cancer and had missed some screening that the very department he "improved" failed to carry out at which point the Karmameter over-heated and exploded.

It's all strangely akin to Brexit. Brexit has been sold to us in all sorts of bullshit ways. What it is really about is extending the anti-union agenda. Brexit hates workers' rights, it hates holiday pay, sick pay, maternity pay, it hates long-term employment, it hates tribunals, it hates legal aid, it hates worker representation of any kind, it hates having to be subservient to law and it hates being subservient to Parliament (which kind of renders all of those "take back control" and "sovereignty" arguments so passionately made so often completely irrelevant).

Carillion was, just as Brexit is, entirely about further entrenching a low paid, long hours, zero hours contract, no pension, no holidays, no rights workforce without government being directly responsible or having to get legislation through Parliament to achieve it.

Still we are where we are. Hey ho.
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Earwegoagain



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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Wed May 16, 2018 2:56 pm

One thing of note in the article was that Carillion was supplying 15,500 hospital beds? The NHS is being privatised already and it's not good for the NHS or us when we're sick. Why the government thought these clowns could do it better than the NHS is beyond me.
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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Thu May 17, 2018 9:00 pm

Carrillion's directors could be Brent speaking after his own dash for dosh under the Citi flag before he bailed out  moments before what he called " a market correction " took place. Lock them all up.
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Greenskin

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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Thu May 17, 2018 9:33 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Firms like Carillion serve very adequately and meet unstated purposes.

Their first task is to splinter the provision of services in the name of competition. By so doing they indirectly wage war on the entire union movement and continue the long-term destruction of trade unionism in this country - something that has been the aim of the Tories ever since 1973 when the miners brought Heath's government down.

The other is to remove direct responsibility, for pretty much anything and everything, away from the minister i/c whichever department is concerned. This stretches all the way from the quality of services provided, the cost for them all the way through to whether they are provided at all or not - and if they can't turn a buck why should they provide them?

In a very minor way James Brent is a perfect example in microcosm. PCC, under Labour control at the time, knew that The Pavs was losing money and would continue to lose money; they probably also knew that the bulk if not all of that loss came from heating the swimming pool. The solution was obvious: close the pool. This solution was politically unpalatable and would have created a huge row so they sold the Pavillions, off-loaded the pool and Brent did the dirty work necessary. Any dissent then becomes his fault not theirs. Job done. Exactly the same applies to Carillion and schools, prisons etc.

Finally they exist as pension fund extensions for ministers. Take Andrew Lansley as a case in point. When he was Minister For Health he already has an interest in various private healthcare providers. As Minister he put through the bill that opened up the NHS (even further) to privatisation. On being booted out he leaves to take up directorships in the private health provision industry never to be heard of again. Except he was heard of when it turned out that he had bowel cancer and had missed some screening that the very department he "improved" failed to carry out at which point the Karmameter over-heated and exploded.

It's all strangely akin to Brexit. Brexit has been sold to us in all sorts of bullshit ways. What it is really about is extending the anti-union agenda. Brexit hates workers' rights, it hates holiday pay, sick pay, maternity pay, it hates long-term employment, it hates tribunals, it hates legal aid, it hates worker representation of any kind, it hates having to be subservient to law and it hates being subservient to Parliament (which kind of renders all of those "take back control" and "sovereignty" arguments so passionately made so often completely irrelevant).

Carillion was, just as Brexit is, entirely about further entrenching a low paid, long hours, zero hours contract, no pension, no holidays, no rights workforce without government being directly responsible or having to get legislation through Parliament to achieve it.

Still we are where we are. Hey ho.

How exactly does Brexit as you describe it fit in with the fact that Cameron and his cohorts such as Osborne, May etc [who presumably represent the nasty face of toryism/capitalism as outlined above] were actually remainers? scratch
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Hugh Watt



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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Fri May 18, 2018 9:26 am

Greenskin wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Firms like Carillion serve very adequately and meet unstated purposes.

Their first task is to splinter the provision of services in the name of competition. By so doing they indirectly wage war on the entire union movement and continue the long-term destruction of trade unionism in this country - something that has been the aim of the Tories ever since 1973 when the miners brought Heath's government down.

The other is to remove direct responsibility, for pretty much anything and everything, away from the minister i/c whichever department is concerned. This stretches all the way from the quality of services provided, the cost for them all the way through to whether they are provided at all or not - and if they can't turn a buck why should they provide them?

In a very minor way James Brent is a perfect example in microcosm. PCC, under Labour control at the time, knew that The Pavs was losing money and would continue to lose money; they probably also knew that the bulk if not all of that loss came from heating the swimming pool. The solution was obvious: close the pool. This solution was politically unpalatable and would have created a huge row so they sold the Pavillions, off-loaded the pool and Brent did the dirty work necessary. Any dissent then becomes his fault not theirs. Job done. Exactly the same applies to Carillion and schools, prisons etc.

Finally they exist as pension fund extensions for ministers. Take Andrew Lansley as a case in point. When he was Minister For Health he already has an interest in various private healthcare providers. As Minister he put through the bill that opened up the NHS (even further) to privatisation. On being booted out he leaves to take up directorships in the private health provision industry never to be heard of again. Except he was heard of when it turned out that he had bowel cancer and had missed some screening that the very department he "improved" failed to carry out at which point the Karmameter over-heated and exploded.

It's all strangely akin to Brexit. Brexit has been sold to us in all sorts of bullshit ways. What it is really about is extending the anti-union agenda. Brexit hates workers' rights, it hates holiday pay, sick pay, maternity pay, it hates long-term employment, it hates tribunals, it hates legal aid, it hates worker representation of any kind, it hates having to be subservient to law and it hates being subservient to Parliament (which kind of renders all of those "take back control" and "sovereignty" arguments so passionately made so often completely irrelevant).

Carillion was, just as Brexit is, entirely about further entrenching a low paid, long hours, zero hours contract, no pension, no holidays, no rights workforce without government being directly responsible or having to get legislation through Parliament to achieve it.

Still we are where we are. Hey ho.

How exactly does Brexit as you describe it fit in with the fact that Cameron and his cohorts such as Osborne, May etc [who presumably represent the nasty face of toryism/capitalism as outlined above] were actually remainers? scratch

None of them are remainers, they simply backed the horse most likely to win. I would imagine a lot of it was also due to the fact that Brexit would be an absolute almight pain in the arse to navigate, which has

Same as Boris Johnson who isn't a leaver, he just backed the horse in the hope it would lose gallantly and that when Cameron stood down, he would be a front-runner to replace him.
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Greenskin

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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Fri May 18, 2018 9:39 am

Hugh Watt wrote:
Greenskin wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Firms like Carillion serve very adequately and meet unstated purposes.

Their first task is to splinter the provision of services in the name of competition. By so doing they indirectly wage war on the entire union movement and continue the long-term destruction of trade unionism in this country - something that has been the aim of the Tories ever since 1973 when the miners brought Heath's government down.

The other is to remove direct responsibility, for pretty much anything and everything, away from the minister i/c whichever department is concerned. This stretches all the way from the quality of services provided, the cost for them all the way through to whether they are provided at all or not - and if they can't turn a buck why should they provide them?

In a very minor way James Brent is a perfect example in microcosm. PCC, under Labour control at the time, knew that The Pavs was losing money and would continue to lose money; they probably also knew that the bulk if not all of that loss came from heating the swimming pool. The solution was obvious: close the pool. This solution was politically unpalatable and would have created a huge row so they sold the Pavillions, off-loaded the pool and Brent did the dirty work necessary. Any dissent then becomes his fault not theirs. Job done. Exactly the same applies to Carillion and schools, prisons etc.

Finally they exist as pension fund extensions for ministers. Take Andrew Lansley as a case in point. When he was Minister For Health he already has an interest in various private healthcare providers. As Minister he put through the bill that opened up the NHS (even further) to privatisation. On being booted out he leaves to take up directorships in the private health provision industry never to be heard of again. Except he was heard of when it turned out that he had bowel cancer and had missed some screening that the very department he "improved" failed to carry out at which point the Karmameter over-heated and exploded.

It's all strangely akin to Brexit. Brexit has been sold to us in all sorts of bullshit ways. What it is really about is extending the anti-union agenda. Brexit hates workers' rights, it hates holiday pay, sick pay, maternity pay, it hates long-term employment, it hates tribunals, it hates legal aid, it hates worker representation of any kind, it hates having to be subservient to law and it hates being subservient to Parliament (which kind of renders all of those "take back control" and "sovereignty" arguments so passionately made so often completely irrelevant).

Carillion was, just as Brexit is, entirely about further entrenching a low paid, long hours, zero hours contract, no pension, no holidays, no rights workforce without government being directly responsible or having to get legislation through Parliament to achieve it.

Still we are where we are. Hey ho.

How exactly does Brexit as you describe it fit in with the fact that Cameron and his cohorts such as Osborne, May etc [who presumably represent the nasty face of toryism/capitalism as outlined above] were actually remainers? scratch

None of them are remainers, they simply backed the horse most likely to win. I would imagine a lot of it was also due to the fact that Brexit would be an absolute almight pain in the arse to navigate, which has

Same as Boris Johnson who isn't a leaver, he just backed the horse in the hope it would lose gallantly and that when Cameron stood down, he would be a front-runner to replace him.

You could have fooled me that they weren't remainers when they were dishing out those dire warnings about world war 3 and the total collapse of the economy the day after Brexit-certainly strongly worded points of view from people who apparently were fence sitters.
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Earwegoagain



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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Fri May 18, 2018 10:59 am

It makes me laugh that the remainers use the absolute dogs dinner that the government are making of Brexit as proof that Brexit is a disaster. It's successive governments that are the disaster if we hadn't allowed them to sell out large sections of the business community in favour of their London banking mates we could still be in the EU and thriving as some of our EU allies are. Britain was disaster before we left the EU, the negotiations are a disaster because the government is incompetent and for the same reason we will still be a disaster after we leave.
Also if the MPs and Lords respected the will of the British people that voted to leave they wouldn't keep doing anything they can to make it difficult for the government to do what they have been told to do by the voting public. Make no mistake the current pigs breakfast is a much to do with leave as it is remain.
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Hugh Watt



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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Fri May 18, 2018 12:37 pm

Greenskin wrote:
Hugh Watt wrote:
Greenskin wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Firms like Carillion serve very adequately and meet unstated purposes.

Their first task is to splinter the provision of services in the name of competition. By so doing they indirectly wage war on the entire union movement and continue the long-term destruction of trade unionism in this country - something that has been the aim of the Tories ever since 1973 when the miners brought Heath's government down.

The other is to remove direct responsibility, for pretty much anything and everything, away from the minister i/c whichever department is concerned. This stretches all the way from the quality of services provided, the cost for them all the way through to whether they are provided at all or not - and if they can't turn a buck why should they provide them?

In a very minor way James Brent is a perfect example in microcosm. PCC, under Labour control at the time, knew that The Pavs was losing money and would continue to lose money; they probably also knew that the bulk if not all of that loss came from heating the swimming pool. The solution was obvious: close the pool. This solution was politically unpalatable and would have created a huge row so they sold the Pavillions, off-loaded the pool and Brent did the dirty work necessary. Any dissent then becomes his fault not theirs. Job done. Exactly the same applies to Carillion and schools, prisons etc.

Finally they exist as pension fund extensions for ministers. Take Andrew Lansley as a case in point. When he was Minister For Health he already has an interest in various private healthcare providers. As Minister he put through the bill that opened up the NHS (even further) to privatisation. On being booted out he leaves to take up directorships in the private health provision industry never to be heard of again. Except he was heard of when it turned out that he had bowel cancer and had missed some screening that the very department he "improved" failed to carry out at which point the Karmameter over-heated and exploded.

It's all strangely akin to Brexit. Brexit has been sold to us in all sorts of bullshit ways. What it is really about is extending the anti-union agenda. Brexit hates workers' rights, it hates holiday pay, sick pay, maternity pay, it hates long-term employment, it hates tribunals, it hates legal aid, it hates worker representation of any kind, it hates having to be subservient to law and it hates being subservient to Parliament (which kind of renders all of those "take back control" and "sovereignty" arguments so passionately made so often completely irrelevant).

Carillion was, just as Brexit is, entirely about further entrenching a low paid, long hours, zero hours contract, no pension, no holidays, no rights workforce without government being directly responsible or having to get legislation through Parliament to achieve it.

Still we are where we are. Hey ho.

How exactly does Brexit as you describe it fit in with the fact that Cameron and his cohorts such as Osborne, May etc [who presumably represent the nasty face of toryism/capitalism as outlined above] were actually remainers? scratch

None of them are remainers, they simply backed the horse most likely to win. I would imagine a lot of it was also due to the fact that Brexit would be an absolute almight pain in the arse to navigate, which has

Same as Boris Johnson who isn't a leaver, he just backed the horse in the hope it would lose gallantly and that when Cameron stood down, he would be a front-runner to replace him.

You could have fooled me that they weren't remainers when they were dishing out those dire warnings about world war 3 and the total collapse of the economy the day after Brexit-certainly strongly worded points of view from people who apparently were fence sitters.

I didn't say they were sitting on the fence, I'm saying they backed the horse most likely to win rather than  pro-EU ideology.

You only have to look Theresa Mays determination to take the country out of the single market and Camerons recent pronouncements on the subject. Its hardly rare to see politicians back track

Most of the real Conservative remainers (Greening, Grieve, Rudd to an extent and Morgan) in the cabinet have been shunted off to the back benches.


Last edited by Hugh Watt on Fri May 18, 2018 2:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PatDunne



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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Fri May 18, 2018 2:03 pm

Oh for the days when Scargill 'mended' Britain
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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Fri May 18, 2018 4:51 pm

Nailed it Erewego..................

This piece echoes  your points and with the CBI having more confidence in the Labour manifesto than May's, it is time to restore the balance.

Capitalism, division and greed is out of control and sadly the older generations who like me have benefited from a fairer society are now voting to deny the same to future generations.

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PatDunne



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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Fri May 18, 2018 6:40 pm

Source fullfact.org

A third of the Carillion contracts with the Government were led by the Labour government.


Conclusion

This is correct. 38% of PFI contracts with Carillion in the published data were awarded during the Labour government. But published data only include deals up to the end of 2015
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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Fri May 18, 2018 8:02 pm

Labour started this PFI shite and the Tories carried it on, yet more guaranteed jobs/ pensions for politicians.

Vote Green!

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Hugh Watt



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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Fri May 18, 2018 10:51 pm

PatDunne wrote:
Source fullfact.org

A third of the Carillion contracts with the Government were led by the Labour government.


Conclusion

This is correct. 38% of PFI contracts with Carillion in the published data were awarded during the Labour government. But published data only include deals up to the end of 2015


And two thirds weren’t then.


Full fact is about as independent as the Daily Mail what with its founder being a Conservative donor but in case you hadn’t notice Labour is unde pr new management now

Maybe check before you cut and paste your google “labour PFI” efforts next time.
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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Sat May 19, 2018 5:03 am

PatDunne wrote:
Source fullfact.org

A third of the Carillion contracts with the Government were led by the Labour government.


Conclusion

This is correct. 38% of PFI contracts with Carillion in the published data were awarded during the Labour government. But published data only include deals up to the end of 2015

Indeed but.............that was Bliar's Tory Light Labour, approved and backed by the likes of Murdoch.

Many of Corbyn's MP's are bliarites and work against him, along with the Tories, corporations, the media and the Israeli lobby.

None of them want their gravy train to be derailed.
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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Sat May 19, 2018 5:07 am

seadog wrote:
Labour started this PFI shite and the Tories carried it on, yet more guaranteed jobs/ pensions for politicians.

Vote Green!

Wasted vote I'm afraid, at this moment in time. Corbyn's Labour is nothing like Bliar's and many of his current MP's still seek to work against him for reasons of self interest.
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Earwegoagain



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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:27 am

And the taxpayer will pick up £148m of debt from them and then there's the £2.6bn pension deficit they have that well also end up paying.
This should herald the end of outsourcing for the NHS, it's a broken model that was clearly about connected people filling their boots with our cash that should be going to treat sick people it really is that simple.
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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:01 am

Tringreen wrote:
seadog wrote:
Labour started this PFI shite and the Tories carried it on, yet more guaranteed jobs/ pensions for politicians.

Vote Green!

Wasted vote I'm afraid, at this moment in time. Corbyn's Labour is nothing like Bliar's and many of his current MP's still seek to work against him for reasons of self interest.

Self interest is the main driving force for too many politicians world wide, not just here.

I think any vote south of the border is wasted.

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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:24 pm

Tringreen wrote:
seadog wrote:
Labour started this PFI shite and the Tories carried it on, yet more guaranteed jobs/ pensions for politicians.

Vote Green!

Wasted vote I'm afraid, at this moment in time. Corbyn's Labour is nothing like Bliar's and many of his current MP's still seek to work against him for reasons of self interest.

Sounds like home park
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Earwegoagain



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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:07 pm

Elias wrote:
Tringreen wrote:
seadog wrote:
Labour started this PFI shite and the Tories carried it on, yet more guaranteed jobs/ pensions for politicians.

Vote Green!

Wasted vote I'm afraid, at this moment in time. Corbyn's Labour is nothing like Bliar's and many of his current MP's still seek to work against him for reasons of self interest.

Sounds like home park

Part of a much wider general malaise PAFC and nodding Donkey fanbase included.
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PostSubject: Re: Carrillion broken Britain.   Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:10 pm

seadog wrote:
Tringreen wrote:
seadog wrote:
Labour started this PFI shite and the Tories carried it on, yet more guaranteed jobs/ pensions for politicians.

Vote Green!

Wasted vote I'm afraid, at this moment in time. Corbyn's Labour is nothing like Bliar's and many of his current MP's still seek to work against him for reasons of self interest.

Self interest is the main driving force for too many politicians world wide, not just here.

I think any vote south of the border is wasted.

Not if you vote with your feet, Seadog, the best vote out there by a country mile.
Barring the odd sweetener and post-war pressures, the Westminster thing is largely a mirage, a play on the water.
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