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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:12 am

I haven't insulted anybody nor suggested that anybody should say or not say anything they care to on here. Feel free. Fire away. It is what ATD is for. I do it whenever I care to and speak as I please. So do you and more power to your elbow. I don't expect anything else from anybody else (within reason) either.

Do that by all means but do not expect it to have any effect on AFT policy. If you want to influence AFT policy then respond to the call for feedback.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:18 am

As for the request for real names...

AFT exists, primarily, to represent its members and the only way to establish whether or not you are a member is to check your name.

Rather obviously if you choose to post here under a pseudonym, as I do, then you may not want to post your real name (we'll all have our own view on that) publicly. That is rather different from contacting AFT in confidence and saying "I am Fred Bloggs, Membership Number 123, and I think...".
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shonbo

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:41 am

SFD Thumbs
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Hugh Watt



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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:42 am

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
beesrus wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Those of you who are members of the AFT should respond to the request for feedback.

Making your case here is fine but this is as far as it will go. If you want to actually influence the eventual decision then engage. If you do not and a policy position is reached that you disapprove of then you can't really complain about it.
Dear oh dear Frank. Not your finest hour. If that's how it is, I think I can live with it. And yes, I can complain about it if I wish.

By all means do.

The fact is that AFT is constantly challenged about consultation and being representative of its members. Well here it is consulting but there is no point in it even trying if nobody responds.

Posts here or elsewhere made by people using pseudonyms, such as myself, carry little weight given the obvious attempts made on various social media platforms by a small number of people using multiple identities to influence opinion.

So your posts here may or may not be read by anybody involved let alone given much credence. Contacting AFT as a member under your own name is the strongest way possible to advance your cause whatever it may be.

That would carry much more weight had the chairman of the AFT bothered to post on here. But then we're not praaper fans.
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Tringreen

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:58 am

When impotence meets omnipotence the result is compliance.
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mouldyoldgoat
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:20 pm

Hugh Watt wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
beesrus wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Those of you who are members of the AFT should respond to the request for feedback.

Making your case here is fine but this is as far as it will go. If you want to actually influence the eventual decision then engage. If you do not and a policy position is reached that you disapprove of then you can't really complain about it.
Dear oh dear Frank. Not your finest hour. If that's how it is, I think I can live with it. And yes, I can complain about it if I wish.

By all means do.

The fact is that AFT is constantly challenged about consultation and being representative of its members. Well here it is consulting but there is no point in it even trying if nobody responds.

Posts here or elsewhere made by people using pseudonyms, such as myself, carry little weight given the obvious attempts made on various social media platforms by a small number of people using multiple identities to influence opinion.

So your posts here may or may not be read by anybody involved let alone given much credence. Contacting AFT as a member under your own name is the strongest way possible to advance your cause whatever it may be.

That would carry much more weight had the chairman of the AFT bothered to post on here. But then we're not praaper fans.

Hence my post earlier.

This thread was started by Tgwu and not a member of the AFT board or someone similar.

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:50 pm

The AFT ain't no GAGWG that's for sure.
I'll make my opinions known.
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beesrus

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:37 pm

Poor old Frank, covering for Bob. I would tell him to cover his own arse if it were me.
The return of the previous chair says all you need to know about AFT. Treading water and going nowhere, just aiming not to be locked out. Fine, if that's what they want, but just don't see the point.
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Yea Man

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:21 am

He'll be along soon to wish us happy new year.
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Tringreen

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:27 am

beesrus wrote:
Poor old Frank, covering for Bob. I would tell him to cover his own arse if it were me.
The return of the previous chair says all you need to know about AFT. Treading water and going nowhere, just aiming not to be locked out. Fine, if that's what they want, but just don't see the point.

Like a broken pencil.......................pointless.
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:32 pm

Bump........not too many in favour here Frank.
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Punchdrunk

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:57 pm

Yes indeed. In fact the recent posts on this matter from the Mankover thread should be moved over to here. Just a suggestion Moderators.

As I previously stated It's possible that the email could have ended up in my junk folder, but that's irrelevant, I am just one of 7-800 members?

So it seems it was ratified after a vote. I depressingly accept that. When was the results made public may I ask?

Seriously disappointed if the majority of the AFT membership is made up of Senior Greens/ Green Taverners Brent Lovers.

It's no wonder that the proposal was carried.

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Angry

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:47 pm

Punchdrunk wrote:
Yes indeed. In fact the recent posts on this matter from the Mankover thread should be moved over to here. Just a suggestion Moderators.

As I previously stated It's possible that the email could have ended up in my junk folder, but that's irrelevant, I am just one of 7-800 members?

So it seems it was ratified after a vote. I depressingly accept that. When was the results made public may I ask?

Seriously disappointed if the majority of the AFT membership is made up of Senior Greens/ Green Taverners Brent Lovers.

It's no wonder that the proposal was carried.


the trust is dead it serves no purpose anymore as they sold out years ago. Save your money guys dont waste it on the trust who do jack.
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Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:55 pm

Tony Cannon did a good job. I wish he was still chairman.
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Angry

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:02 pm

Rickler wrote:
Tony Cannon did a good job.  I wish he was still chairman.

he did as good a job as he could in fairness after the critical damage bob inflicted on it.
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Earwegoagain

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:26 am

beesrus wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The fact is that AFT is constantly challenged about consultation and being representative of its members. Well here it is consulting but there is no point in it even trying if nobody responds.

Posts here or elsewhere made by people using pseudonyms, such as myself, carry little weight given the obvious attempts made on various social media platforms by a small number of people using multiple identities to influence opinion.

So your posts here may or may not be read by anybody involved let alone given much credence. Contacting AFT as a member under your own name is the strongest way possible to advance your cause whatever it may be.

Here we go, the pasoti "real names" thing, you couldn't resist it. How about asking the club not to hide behind their own handles, their own pseudonyms of limited liability. Representation has always been a mix of the transparent and the opaque, that's how human interaction works on all levels, from family to nation state.  You want to do the naive thing and get led down a garden path, that's up to you. You want to do the New Labour thing, the New AFT revisionist thing, then carry on and see where it gets you, see the support you engender.
I put my thoughts here because I can, and because they certainly wouldn't see the light of day under the AFT banner. Why do you think after 6 long years, the AFT still struggle to get up a head of steam. I'll tell you why, because when push comes to shove, you back down under threat of lockout, and hand over what little energy has been given to you by fans. into a bottomless pit, with no return. And another year goes by. Sorry, not impressed. Better to have said nothing.
By all means ask for your members' opinion, but don't insult other fans while doing so.

What Bees says nails it concerning the trust, not knocking Franny as he makes valid points re representation but the trust is like some self emasculating fawn under Bobs leadership. I shall not be renewing. If we were talking about a pub where home and away fans can simply drop in for a pre match pint I would support and use the facility. To have my money going to a private members bar that I would never use is pointless.
I still manage to support Argyle without getting into bed with Jimmy and the gang so should the Trust.
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#SHITARTIST

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:58 am

As a non member i probably have no right to moan, but why aren't any of the Trusts committee members (who are members of ATD), who voted in favour of the PortaPub actually commenting?
It seems a bit unfair on SFD to try and explain it all(especially as he abstained).
I'm guessing the granola is far more important.
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beesrus

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:22 am

Through the very best of fortune, I'm not a member of brent's inner circle, but that does't mean I don't have the right to complain and oppose. Just because the "Trust" is a members' club does't exempt it from criticism from the outside. Outside pressure can often affect decision making, that's how human behaviour works in the real world, despite what flimsy mechanisms  are put up to stop it. Look how brent and his cronies have successfully emasculated this trust without ever having been members. Easy meat.

I agree, the Trust appeared to gain a little self respect under Tony, but that short moment has since eroded again with the second slice of the Bob sandwich.
Even considering getting into bed with this unfortunate taverner debacle was a bad move. This Trust is so easily pushed over a cliff by one or two people. Still, it is how the village operates. The real mind blower was how a couple of goons tricked this trust into that poppy sponsorship thing and landed it in debt as it were. Talk about leading by the nose. Where was the original vote for that or any alternatives offered ? Voting on this taverner thing might as well have been asking if members agreed with Argyle trying to win their next game. It has been a taverner gig, let them get on with it, stop trying to ingratiate yourselves.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:46 pm

Can't really say much about the Poppy thing because I was not on the board then and only know what anybody else does about how it all happened.

I do know, however, for an absolute fact that AFT emerged entirely neutral financially from its involvement: not a penny made nor a penny lost.

Three of the individuals prominently involved did each lose a substantial sum through their under-writing of the process. It is entirely unfair, not to mention plain wrong, to suggest "goons tricked" anybody about anything.

As far as the lack of consultation goes lessons have been learned and the AFT is trying to do better but if people ignore the emails we send, won't contact AFT under their own names and don't step up to show us how to do better there is little we can do other than try as hard as we can.
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Earwegoagain

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:22 pm

If the members vote to invest the trust have to once they have got that answer from the membership. I guess that's the problem with referendums you may get the answer you don't want. Very Happy
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Earwegoagain

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:24 pm

In fact now I come t think of it my two boys are now of voting age and trust members although they werent of voting age when the Gt thing came up. Shorely we should rerun the vote?
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:30 pm

Of course.

Brexit shows us that there's more idiots out there than we might reasonably expect.

At least in this case the decision between AFT board and rank and file was essentially the same and not close in either instance.

I don't like this AFT decision but have no qualms at all about how it was arrived at. Everybody on the board had their say and the members had their vote.

Apart from the outcome there is nothing to criticise here.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:31 pm

Earwegoagain wrote:
In fact now I come t think of it my two boys are now of voting age and trust members although they werent of voting age when the Gt thing came up. Shorely we should rerun the vote?

If you feel strongly that the decision should be re-visited then start your campaign now before it is too late.
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Earwegoagain

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:16 pm

Oh I think I've got a lot of time before this happens anyway.
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beesrus

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman report   Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:30 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Can't really say much about the Poppy thing because I was not on the board then and only know what anybody else does about how it all happened.

I do know, however, for an absolute fact that AFT emerged entirely neutral financially from its involvement: not a penny made nor a penny lost..

Finance isn't always the only thing that is lost. Time, effort, focus, reputation and even esprit de corps are also lost. Naive. When will the AFT clock they are not wanted at the club and are fair game for all manner of games ?
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