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 Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?

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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:29 am

Inspired by the Diagouraga debate I'm wondering who these teams in Div 1 that "we cannot compete financially with" are.

Here's our divisional rivals ranked by average home attendance.

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So of them I guess Wigan and Blackburn, apart from carrying massive debt, probably have parachute payments from their recent PL days. Maybe Blackpool do too.

Pompey and Bradford have significantly bigger crowds - although Bradford is dirt cheap and so that might not raise as much revenue as we might suppose.

After that who is there that we cannot compete with financially - and bearing in mind the SCMP why is that the case?
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Mock Cuncher

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PostSubject: Re: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:46 am

TBH I'm impressed with MK Dons support. Surprised it's happened as quickly as it has.
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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:51 am

Two completely different questions though innit?

Who are the bigger clubs? By coincidence, for me quite possibly the actual four that are above us on that attendance table. Wigan are a nothing club, bankrolled singularly to where they are by Dave Whelan.

Who can't we compete with financially? Well there's 'can't', and 'won't'. We have Brent and Smarmes at the helm, so in our case the question is more, 'won't.'

We should, SHOULD be able to compete financially with all but those five.
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Bandwagon

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PostSubject: Re: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:05 pm

Mock Cuncher wrote:
TBH I'm impressed with MK Dons support. Surprised it's happened as quickly as it has.
Big place now, up to 230k from a virtual farm yard in the 50s - plenty of half decent work in the area and a lunatic Winkelman to bankroll a mega stadium.
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akagreengull
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PostSubject: Re: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:16 pm

Always interesting that away managers describe Akkeron Argyle as a 'big club' usually in the context of 'in this league' I usually assume it's based on attendances and stadium size.
The only stat that is indisputable is that we are the 'biggest' football club in Devon.


Last edited by akagreengull on Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Greenlander

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PostSubject: Re: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:19 pm

Facetiously all of them.

In reality, that list probably splits down the middle as it stands with Fleetwood and their wealthy (but unsustainable as these things almost always are) backing moving above Southend and their annual court appearance with the HMRC.

We should be able to better any team on the right side.
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Hugh Watt



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PostSubject: Re: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:19 pm

Bradfords high attendance is because they offer very cheap ST's. Otherwise I'd consider them a similar sized club to Argyle, they aren't a big draw locally having to compete with the Rugby League and Leeds United.
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Innocent Egbunike

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PostSubject: Re: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:46 pm

There are so many nuances to the argument as to make it almost redundant. Gate size is way too simplistic an indicator in this day and age.

The thing that stands out for me from that table is how crap Blackburn's support is for a club which not only has age-old pedigree but also won the title within recent memory.
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PostSubject: Re: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:29 pm

Blackpool can also be adjusted as many supporters have boycotted the club
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Coxside_Green



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PostSubject: Re: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:57 pm

Blackpool are in their 7th season outside the Prem, Blackburn their 6th and Wigan are in their 5th so none are currently in receipt of PL parachute payments. Whether they've squirrelled any away for a rainy day over the last few years is questionable.

With Carey we have proven we can compete financially with the so-called bigger clubs if there's a will. I can only guess the so-called bigger clubs interested in Carey weren't prepared to pay £22k+ per month for a player who wasn't guaranteed 1st team football. While they can outspend us on their 1st choice targets we ought to be able to match them for players that would be bench warmers/squad players who would otherwise walk straight into our first XI as Diagouraga has done.
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PatDunne



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PostSubject: Re: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:47 pm

are Manchester United 'unsustainable' with a £380 million pound debt?

Manchester United financial results: Debt reaches £380.5million as Champions League absence bites

The Red Devils debt has risen in their latest quarterly figures as the absence of Champions League football continues to impact on the 20-time English champions
Mirror Feb 2015

I believe it's ego, I think Brent truly believes he has waltzed into football and found a 'third way'






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VillageGreen

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PostSubject: Re: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:53 pm

PatDunne wrote:
are Manchester United 'unsustainable' with a £380 million pound debt?

Manchester United financial results: Debt reaches £380.5million as Champions League absence bites

The Red Devils debt has risen in their latest quarterly figures as the absence of Champions League football continues to impact on the 20-time English champions
Mirror Feb 2015

I believe it's ego, I think Brent truly believes he has waltzed into football and found a 'third way'









Brent's third way = running Argyle like a part-time club, with austerity abound.
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VillageGreen

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PostSubject: Re: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:00 pm

Pompey always seem to attract big crowds, so no surprise they are in second spot. I can see them back in the Championship soon.

It is a shame that Argyle do not attract crowds like Pompey.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:39 pm

Innocent Egbunike wrote:
There are so many nuances to the argument as to make it almost redundant. Gate size is way too simplistic an indicator in this day and age.

The thing that stands out for me from that table is how crap Blackburn's support is for a club which not only has age-old pedigree but also won the title within recent memory.

Gate size is just about the only indicator we can look up though.

There's precious little TV money in this division and the teams all take their chances for transfer fees just the same.

Apart from attendances what do you suggest we use?
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PlymptonPilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:42 pm

It's not a question that has a definitive answer. If you listen to Alan Curbishley (who I have a lot of time for), he says we are big club who, with our potential for support, could end up an established PL team. (He said that on the C5 goals programme).

If you speak to a Liverpool fan, we are a small lower league club who played them in the FA cup last season.

Both are right, or wrong, depending on your point of view.

In my view, we are a small club, because we have a small club mentality. The owners have no ambition for success on the pitch, only for their property deals, and it seems the majority of the fan base are content with that - the 'grateful to have a club' brigade. Whilst that mentality continues so will our football obscurity.
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Innocent Egbunike

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PostSubject: Re: Which of these teams is "bigger than Argyle"?   Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:21 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Innocent Egbunike wrote:
There are so many nuances to the argument as to make it almost redundant. Gate size is way too simplistic an indicator in this day and age.

The thing that stands out for me from that table is how crap Blackburn's support is for a club which not only has age-old pedigree but also won the title within recent memory.

Gate size is just about the only indicator we can look up though.

There's precious little TV money in this division and the teams all take their chances for transfer fees just the same.

Apart from attendances what do you suggest we use?

Off the top of my head:

Wealth - either via turnover (inc transfer fees) or simply access to cash.
Geographical location, relative to places players actually want to live
Recent success - e.g. interest in Pompey at an investment and fan level enhanced by winning an FA Cup and playing European games within the last 10 years
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