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 General Election June 8th 2017

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptyFri Jun 09, 2017 7:34 pm

Corbyn's missed his opportunity, bottom line is May was handing it to him on a plate particularly in regard to the funding cuts for the police over the last 5-6 years and he still lost.
I'd like to vote labour again but it won't happen, if at all, while Corbyns still there as I'm not keen on a return to seventies politics.
As for Renationalisation of the Railways etc, much as I would like that to happen it wouldn't happen in a Parliament term, so I personally think its a gimmick and would never happen
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VillageGreen

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptyFri Jun 09, 2017 8:27 pm

Flat_Track_Bully wrote:
VillageGreen wrote:


I was once a part of the left (I was a member of the SWP) , but I felt that what the left was calling for was unattainable and would probably push the country to the brink. I soul searched long and hard and decided to end my membership of the SWP and move away from the left.

I did agree with the Labour idea of bringing back certain areas of business back into the public arena though, Network Rail and utilities.

Corbyn will probably remain as Labour leader for the fight to the next election, whether that is in weeks, months or years. But should he see another defeat, his time as Labour leader has to end and be replaced with someone who can get a victory.

Finally, should the Tories and DUP not form a pact to govern or it all goes tits up in the coming weeks, months or years, would Labour get a crack at trying to govern with the help of others or would they have to endure the rigours of another election ?. Corbyn has said that Labour are ready to govern if the Tories can't.

So exactly what policies of Labour's did you disagree with? A lot of what they were proposed (nationalisations, end of tuition fees, corporation tax to 26%) actually existed up into the 1980's in the UK, and still exist in many other developed countries. So there isn't any evidence that they would take the country 'to the brink'.

No-one is likely to agree with every single policy of a party (I certainly don't agree with everything in the Labour manifesto). But you have to be pragmatic to an extent and pick the major party that is closest to your worldview (as long as the closest party aren't too far away from your principles). If you don't do that, you get the ultra-austerity of the Tories (now with added extra DUP religious lunacy).


I can remember the good old days of a public owned railway in the 80s and I can just about recall the strikes from the unions in the 70s, with uncollected rubbish and the like.

I'll get back on the Labour policies I disagreed with.

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VillageGreen

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptyFri Jun 09, 2017 8:31 pm

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The [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] have certainly had the wind took out their sails.


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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptyFri Jun 09, 2017 8:32 pm

Graiser wrote:
Corbyn's missed his opportunity, bottom line is May was handing it to him on a plate particularly in regard to the funding cuts for the police over the last 5-6 years and he still lost.
Rubbish, Corbyn didn't have an opportunity to win this time around. Just how much of a chance do you see as real ? He was 20 odd points behind when the election was called, given the outrageous Putinesque press his sort always get in this country, let alone his own party MPs since he became leader. He has now seen them all off and starts from a level playing field with a reasonable constituency.

I'd like to vote labour again but it won't happen, if at all, while Corbyns still there as I'm not keen on a return to seventies politics.
Just admit it, you're a Blairite NEW labour, not REAL Labour.
As for Renationalisation of the Railways etc, much as I would like that to happen it wouldn't happen in a Parliament term, so I personally think its a gimmick and would never happen
Yes it will. This country has a history of privatising and then nationalising the railways in particular. Several times. Look it up and see why the oscillation. For all intents and purposes, they nationalised a couple of the big banks in a fortnight.
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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptyFri Jun 09, 2017 9:21 pm

beesrus wrote:
Graiser wrote:
Corbyn's missed his opportunity, bottom line is May was handing it to him on a plate particularly in regard to the funding cuts for the police over the last 5-6 years and he still lost.
Rubbish, Corbyn didn't have an opportunity to win this time around. Just how much of a chance do you see as real ? He was 20 odd points behind when the election was called, given the outrageous Putinesque press his sort always get in this country, let alone his own party MPs since he became leader. He has now seen them all off and starts from a level playing field with a reasonable constituency.

He still could not take advantage of the opportunities that May inadvertently gave him, he lost

I'd like to vote labour again but it won't happen, if at all, while Corbyns still there as I'm not keen on a return to seventies politics.
Just admit it, you're a Blairite NEW labour, not REAL Labour.

Total bollox, ive mentioned before I haven't voted labour since circa 2007/8

As for Renationalisation of the Railways etc, much as I would like that to happen it wouldn't happen in a Parliament term, so I personally think its a gimmick and would never happen
Yes it will. This country has a history of privatising and then nationalising the railways in particular. You need to get your facts right, the railways have only been nationalised once, grouping occurred in 1922/3 and those companies were still private

Several times. Look it up and see why the oscillation. For all intents and purposes, they nationalised a couple of the big banks in a fortnight.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptyFri Jun 09, 2017 11:04 pm

After all that "Corbyn talks to terrorists" stuff we have the government (!) effectively in coalition with what amounts to a protestant version of Sinn Fein.

Incredible. Truly beyond imagination.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptyFri Jun 09, 2017 11:10 pm

...with possible consequences we can barely comprehend.

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Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptyFri Jun 09, 2017 11:24 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
After all that "Corbyn talks to terrorists" stuff we have the government (!) effectively in coalition with what amounts to a protestant version of Sinn Fein.

Incredible. Truly beyond imagination.

You really are a drama queen.

It's only beyond someone with a very limited imagination...

To anyone normal, it's just politics as usual.


Last edited by Rickler on Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rollo Tomasi



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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptyFri Jun 09, 2017 11:40 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
After all that "Corbyn talks to terrorists" stuff we have the government (!) effectively in coalition with what amounts to a protestant version of Sinn Fein.

Incredible. Truly beyond imagination.

Not strictly true. I think it was more a case of 'supported terrorists'.

He invited known members of the IRA to Westminster just three weeks after the Brighton bombing in which 5 people, 3 of them innocent women, were killed.

Do you condone Corbyn's actions then?


Last edited by Rollo Tomasi on Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySat Jun 10, 2017 12:46 am

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySat Jun 10, 2017 7:48 am

Being saved by the unionists in Ireland and Scotland has a certain irony given the ongoing Brexit troubles. Tweeza "car crash" May. What an astute political operator. For any city residents concerned about her desperate cling to power, there's a chance to air your grievance in the city centre today.
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Flat_Track_Bully

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySat Jun 10, 2017 11:16 am

VillageGreen wrote:
Flat_Track_Bully wrote:
VillageGreen wrote:


I was once a part of the left (I was a member of the SWP) , but I felt that what the left was calling for was unattainable and would probably push the country to the brink. I soul searched long and hard and decided to end my membership of the SWP and move away from the left.

I did agree with the Labour idea of bringing back certain areas of business back into the public arena though, Network Rail and utilities.

Corbyn will probably remain as Labour leader for the fight to the next election, whether that is in weeks, months or years. But should he see another defeat, his time as Labour leader has to end and be replaced with someone who can get a victory.

Finally, should the Tories and DUP not form a pact to govern or it all goes tits up in the coming weeks, months or years, would Labour get a crack at trying to govern with the help of others or would they have to endure the rigours of another election ?. Corbyn has said that Labour are ready to govern if the Tories can't.

So exactly what policies of Labour's did you disagree with? A lot of what they were proposed (nationalisations, end of tuition fees, corporation tax to 26%) actually existed up into the 1980's in the UK, and still exist in many other developed countries. So there isn't any evidence that they would take the country 'to the brink'.

No-one is likely to agree with every single policy of a party (I certainly don't agree with everything in the Labour manifesto). But you have to be pragmatic to an extent and pick the major party that is closest to your worldview (as long as the closest party aren't too far away from your principles). If you don't do that, you get the ultra-austerity of the Tories (now with added extra DUP religious lunacy).


I can remember the good old days of a public owned railway in the 80s and I can just about recall the strikes from the unions in the 70s, with uncollected rubbish and the like.

I'll get back on the Labour policies I disagreed with.


Remember Southern Rail, from all the way back to earlier this year? Privitisation doesn't protect you from strikes, and it encourages costs cutting and poor service. Under privitisation, governments can wash their hands of responsibility, blaming the private rail operators, who themselves are largely unaccountable.

The railways are a natural monopoly - it makes no sense to have multiple operators running the exact same service on different lines. Having multiple operators just increases back office overheads (sudden need for marketing, separate back office functions required for each different operator, rather than just one function for the whole network).
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySat Jun 10, 2017 11:39 am

Democracy eh, hope it rains, amazing what a drop of water can do to peoples principles.
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VillageGreen

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySat Jun 10, 2017 12:38 pm

There is much talk of what the DUP will want for helping out to prop up the Tories. According to some, the DUP will certainly demand that the EU funding they currently receive is replaced by the government once Brexit is done and dusted. I wonder if the Scots and Welsh will see a decrease in replacement payments they will receive from the government so that May can keep the DUP sweet and remain onside.

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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySat Jun 10, 2017 12:56 pm

May will be gone in the very near future, and rightly so.
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Moist_Von_Lipwig

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySat Jun 10, 2017 12:59 pm

So what happens now??

Hard Brexit, soft Brexit, no Brexit??

Two unneeded votes and a fecked up UK.
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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySat Jun 10, 2017 3:29 pm

As it's become all the rage on ATD lately, have this one. Easypeasy, isn't it.

I wonder if Murdoch and like minded billionaires will be blazing May's new besties across their media empires,
as they have with Corbyn. #unbiassedmedia

General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 2Q==
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Moist_Von_Lipwig

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySat Jun 10, 2017 6:17 pm

What about a Con Lab coallition??

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySat Jun 10, 2017 6:48 pm

Good idea Moist. We could call it Westminster.
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PatDunne



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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySat Jun 10, 2017 7:00 pm

We contribute more cash to the EU budget than we get back, So any EU funding for our regions can still be paid direct by the UK taxpayer rather than sent to Europe and getting a portion back.
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Moist_Von_Lipwig

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySat Jun 10, 2017 9:27 pm

beesrus wrote:
Good idea Moist. We could call it Westminster.

Works well in Germany...

Keeps Merkel in check..
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Moist_Von_Lipwig

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySat Jun 10, 2017 9:33 pm

PatDunne wrote:
We contribute more cash to the EU budget than we get back, So any EU funding for our regions can still be paid direct by the UK taxpayer rather than sent to Europe and getting a portion back.

But.....

How much do we pay and how much do we get back?


How much would we save and is it enough to keep everything the same? ;-)


Please, no answer without research and links (not just w
hat Nige and his mates said down the pub)....
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VillageGreen

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySun Jun 11, 2017 3:58 am

Corbyn is now a has been. He has no chance of ever running the country, ever. And the sooner his followers accept that, the better.

Chris Leslie has said that the result was not good enough for Labour and the gains made should not be seen as a famous victory. I agree with that 100%.

The sooner Corbyn is removed, the better. Then, and only then, will the Labour Party stand any chance of winning an election.

As long as Corbyn the clown is head of the Labour Party, they have no chance.

What makes me laugh is the fact that a good number of 18-24 year olds came out and voted for Corbyn, probably hoping to see a reverse in the Brexit vote. If those youngsters are now so keen about being EU, where were they in 2016 ?.
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VillageGreen

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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySun Jun 11, 2017 4:14 am

beesrus wrote:
Being saved by the unionists in Ireland and Scotland has a certain irony given the ongoing Brexit troubles. Tweeza "car crash" May. What an astute political operator.  For any city residents concerned about her desperate cling to power, there's a chance to air your grievance in the city centre today.


I would rather back May than a communist like Corbyn. He is a friend of the terrorist and a bad, bad choice for Labour leader. He has to go, and go now.

There is no room or desire for the left-wing policies that Corbyn preaches. We live and breath globalisation today and that will not change. Left-wing ideology is a thing of the past and that should be expressed much more. Left-wing views and policies are not the way forward.
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PostSubject: Re: General Election June 8th 2017   General Election June 8th 2017 - Page 11 EmptySun Jun 11, 2017 6:52 am

VillageGreen wrote:

I would rather back May than a communist like Corbyn. He is a friend of the terrorist and a bad, bad choice for Labour leader. He has to go, and go now.

There is no room or desire for the left-wing policies that Corbyn preaches. We live and breath globalisation today and that will not change. Left-wing ideology is a thing of the past and that should be expressed much more. Left-wing views and policies are not the way forward.

Have you seen Tweeza's latest mates, Village ?  raised eyebrow  
And just how do you think peace was achieved in Northern Ireland ? don't tell me, nobody spoke to the terrorists.
Chris Leslie knows about as much of the public anger as the rest of his Tory lite Blairite mates. He couldn't have been more wrong about everything since he landed his gig.  Deselect him. And, rather than give credit to Corbyn for his policies, the line now for you head in the sand old geeza Tories is it was all May's fault.  Razz  Razz  Razz . The truth is May's social care plans and coming more general attack on pensioners ARE part of Tory policy, with or without May, and the electorate are starting to twig. Their think tanks have been bad mouthing those greedy baby boomers since 2010, waiting for some of the mud to stick. They're slowly being crowbarred into the "undeserving" category along with the disabled and unemployed. As Tony Blair once said " We're all undeserving now". And, have you actually listened to a living breathing teacher lately as to what's going on underneath the radar ?

After probably the biggest ever slagging off in history of a Labour leader by the establishment press and his own MPs, I'm amazed Corbyn did so well at such short notice. That indicates a ground swell that will only continue. People are warming to the so-called communist terrorist.
There's millions of throw away sayings out there.... here's one ... Revolution seems impossible until it becomes inevitable. Do you really think "things are going to get better" for the working zero hours gig generation under this present way of doing things dominated by corporations with too much unelected power and self interest ? Stick to yer silly forecasting league goonery, it's where you're at.

PS Who understands globalisation more ? Corbyn who wants to keep the single market, or the Tories that want to close the borders ? get real.
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