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Greenskin

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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:32 pm

Greenlander wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
9 years!

Unbelievable, isn't it.

Just think you could be well into your twenties now as a lifelong supporter and you'd never have seen a properly successful season. All they have ever known is desperate hanging on, relegation (twice), narrowly avoiding ever more abject failure (twice) and bottling it when we get a sniff of glory (twice).

It's amazing that we have any fans under the age of about 30 at all.

You can hardly blame them for going batshit mental about everything when we do eventually go up.

To be fair glory has been pretty rare whichever generation you're from.

In my formative years Argyle were a solid Division 3 club, with the second division being a place we visited for a short while every couple of decades and history pretty much supported that.

Our median position is still Division 3 but in the last 20 years we've spent far less time there than the two leagues either side.  

Different perspectives from different generations maybe. When I first started going to HP in 1964, Argyle had been a rock solid second division club for a number of years seemingly with aspirations to make the first division. The third division didn't really seem to be a serious danger and the fourth division would have been completely unthinkable, just couldn't happen. It certainly did though and 1968 and subsequent director inspired disasters became regular but still devastating eye openers over the years.History and median positions are really irrelevancies when you see what clubs with almost identical records to Argyle have achieved in recent years-if acceptance of the historic median was endemic, then Bournemouth would not have reached the premier league, Iceland would not have reached the euro quarter finals or Leicester would not be champions etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:00 pm

The median position is only relevant as a yardstick to measure success. It's what would be termed "par" in golf. It's there but it doesn't actually affect the score achieved.

As already stated if the median position was significant then Bournemouth would never be anywhere near where they are but if it is to be used as anything at all then there's a strong case to be made for Bournemouth being the most successful club in the country, even including Leicester's unprecedented success, at present.

Argyle being promoted is obviously a success but from this division isn't it the least we should hope for?
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:24 pm

Like Skinny, I was weaned on rock steady 2nd division football with a real prospect of First division stuff. To me football success tends to follow either some lune of an owner or more often reflects the power and vibrancy of the area represented. Hence in the last 30 years post the demise of everything industrial, the power has moved South, and to London. Only Manchester has bucked the trend, which itself as a city has enjoyed  a revival in a way much of the North has not. Even the Beeb upsticked and settled there. In stark contrast, the demise of Sunderland and Newcastle is particularly noticeable.
Now, with migrant capital skewing the power, the South coast is on the rise in unthought of ways.....Bournemouth ffs.
There's no Janner Tiger here, no grand move South West of investment, and the navy has sunk without a trace. Like it or not, the South West is edging more and more to an unconnected low wage provincial tourism/retiree economy, where even the club owners are retiring bankers looking for a safe haven for their ill gotten. The club WILL reflect this.
Here endeth the same old haughty geopolitical lesson.
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:01 pm

haughty geopolitical, that's easy for you to say beeser.

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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:38 pm

Greenlander wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
9 years!

Unbelievable, isn't it.

Just think you could be well into your twenties now as a lifelong supporter and you'd never have seen a properly successful season. All they have ever known is desperate hanging on, relegation (twice), narrowly avoiding ever more abject failure (twice) and bottling it when we get a sniff of glory (twice).

It's amazing that we have any fans under the age of about 30 at all.

You can hardly blame them for going batshit mental about everything when we do eventually go up.

To be fair glory has been pretty rare whichever generation you're from.

In my formative years Argyle were a solid Division 3 club, with the second division being a place we visited for a short while every couple of decades and history pretty much supported that.

Our median position is still Division 3 but in the last 20 years we've spent far less time there than the two leagues either side.




Interesting comments.




Last edited by VillageGreen on Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:24 am; edited 5 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:40 pm

Greenlander wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
9 years!

Unbelievable, isn't it.

Just think you could be well into your twenties now as a lifelong supporter and you'd never have seen a properly successful season. All they have ever known is desperate hanging on, relegation (twice), narrowly avoiding ever more abject failure (twice) and bottling it when we get a sniff of glory (twice).

It's amazing that we have any fans under the age of about 30 at all.

You can hardly blame them for going batshit mental about everything when we do eventually go up.

To be fair glory has been pretty rare whichever generation you're from.

In my formative years Argyle were a solid Division 3 club, with the second division being a place we visited for a short while every couple of decades and history pretty much supported that.

Our median position is still Division 3 but in the last 20 years we've spent far less time there than the two leagues either side.



When I started following Argyle back in '81, the side were an ok to good Division Three side. They had never been relegated to Division Four, but had never played in the top flight. I have been at Home Park when crowds of 4,000 or less were there. I can remember one year when a good number of us were in the Devonport End chanting for the then Chairman to vacate Home Park. It made the news.

My first promotion was in '86 and the side that the ciderman put together. I was in Bristol the night Argyle thrashed Bristol City 4-0, twas so sweet to rub the shitheads noses in it, before they got a tad violent.

That first season in Division Two was a good one, albeit missing out on the interesting positions. We never seem to stay in the second league for an age, only flirting and then struggling, before the inevitable relegation.

I was devastated when Argyle first got relegated to the fourth tier, such a tragic day, only beaten by administration and this current spell in the fourth league.

We all know that Argyle can blow hot and cold, with each season different from the previous one. We are all Argyle diehards, grasping on to any success that comes a calling.

I have had some really good home games over the years and a few cracking away days down the decades too, memories that can be spoken highly of even now.

Wembley in '96 was surreal. The week before the Play-Off Final against Darlington (gee, where are they nowadays) was extremely nervy, on the day it was manic. For me personally, that second leg Play-Off Semi-Final at home to Colchester will always stick in my mind. That goal by Williams was something else, the ball just seemed to hang slowly in the air before he met it and sent thousands into ecstasy. Funny thing is though, I went to the first leg at Colchester and if my memory serves me right, Colchester hit the woodwork during the game and an Argyle fan not too far away confidently says "we are going to Wembley".

I will raise a glass of beer to Adams and the team when promotion is finally secured within the next 19 days or so (hopefully). Not to Brent though, all I wish for him is to bugger off to where he sprung up from.

Should the side clinch promotion at Home to relegation threatened (or already down) Newport, I will join in with any pitch invasion that happens, not out of joy, more like bloody relief.

We do not see much glory at Home Park, and like I stated, we grasp it with both hands when it does come around and lord it up accordingly (for what it is worth).

I hope that the side can grace the Championship once again, and who knows, reach the promised land (even if it were to be for one season only).

I can safely say that in all the years that I have followed Argyle, it has been an interesting and extremely exciting adventure, but oh so terribly painful more often than not. And I would not change one bit of it if I could.

Forget the likes of Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool with trophies and star players and money galore. I was introduced to Argyle while still at school and I have never looked back.



Last edited by VillageGreen on Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:28 am; edited 7 times in total
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:45 pm

beesrus wrote:
Like Skinny, I was weaned on rock steady 2nd division football with a real prospect of First division stuff. To me football success tends to follow either some lune of an owner or more often reflects the power and vibrancy of the area represented. Hence in the last 30 years post the demise of everything industrial, the power has moved South, and to London. Only Manchester has bucked the trend, which itself as a city has enjoyed  a revival in a way much of the North has not. Even the Beeb upsticked and settled there. In stark contrast, the demise of Sunderland and Newcastle is particularly noticeable.
Now, with migrant capital skewing the power, the South coast is on the rise in unthought of ways.....Bournemouth ffs.
There's no Janner Tiger here, no grand move South West of investment, and the navy has sunk without a trace. Like it or not, the South West is edging more and more to an unconnected low wage provincial tourism/retiree economy, where even the club owners are retiring bankers looking for a safe haven for their ill gotten. The club WILL reflect this.
Here endeth the same old haughty geopolitical lesson.

Are things really bad at present for Newcastle and Sunderland?

I don't think either has ever won the league. Well Newcastle might have waaaaaaay back (I'm unsure) but they've only really challenged once ("I'd love it" and all that) seriously that I recall in my lifetime. Both have been prone to yoyo-ing between the top division and the one below with an occasional bit of cup glory along the way (Newcastle have won the FA cup a few times - but again not recently).

Surely between them they are pretty much where they usually are?

I think, in a perverse way, Manchester got lucky when the IRA blew their town centre up. All of a sudden lots of buildings were instantly renovated creating an obviously visible vibe in the city and momentum was created where previously there had been very little. Basically a run down town centre became very trendy overnight and when the time came for the BBC to attempt to be less London-centric Manchester was the obvious destination.

And again over the years there has nearly always been either a City or United, sometimes both, somewhere near the top just as they are now so they are pretty much where you might expect them to be. I suppose United might claim to be in the Doldrums a bit at present but that is only in comparison to the almost relentless glory of the SAF years which in itself was more a blip even if it lasted 20 years.

And is London really doing that well? Tottenham haven't won a title since '61 and Arsenal since 2004 and I'd expect more from them than that. Chelsea have been very successful since Abramovich took over but that is out of character for them in a historical context so they do represent a shift.

The real decline in football's traditional heartlands and hot beds is in Yorkshire where everybody has been ordinary for a long time,around the Birmingham where football has arguably never been weaker - there's no serious contender in sight and there hasn't been for years - and Merseyside where it is a long time now since Liverpool (who also had an atypical 20 year success blip) and Everton were up there and challenging.
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:02 am

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
beesrus wrote:
Like Skinny, I was weaned on rock steady 2nd division football with a real prospect of First division stuff. To me football success tends to follow either some lune of an owner or more often reflects the power and vibrancy of the area represented. Hence in the last 30 years post the demise of everything industrial, the power has moved South, and to London. Only Manchester has bucked the trend, which itself as a city has enjoyed  a revival in a way much of the North has not. Even the Beeb upsticked and settled there. In stark contrast, the demise of Sunderland and Newcastle is particularly noticeable.
Now, with migrant capital skewing the power, the South coast is on the rise in unthought of ways.....Bournemouth ffs.
There's no Janner Tiger here, no grand move South West of investment, and the navy has sunk without a trace. Like it or not, the South West is edging more and more to an unconnected low wage provincial tourism/retiree economy, where even the club owners are retiring bankers looking for a safe haven for their ill gotten. The club WILL reflect this.
Here endeth the same old haughty geopolitical lesson.

Are things really bad at present for Newcastle and Sunderland?

I don't think either has ever won the league. Well Newcastle might have waaaaaaay back (I'm unsure) but they've only really challenged once ("I'd love it" and all that) seriously that I recall in my lifetime. Both have been prone to yoyo-ing between the top division and the one below with an occasional bit of cup glory along the way (Newcastle have won the FA cup a few times - but again not recently).

Surely between them they are pretty much where they usually are?

I think, in a perverse way, Manchester got lucky when the IRA blew their town centre up. All of a sudden lots of buildings were instantly renovated creating an obviously visible vibe in the city and momentum was created where previously there had been very little. Basically a run down town centre became very trendy overnight and when the time came for the BBC to attempt to be less London-centric Manchester was the obvious destination.

And again over the years there has nearly always been either a City or United, sometimes both, somewhere near the top just as they are now so they are pretty much where you might expect them to be. I suppose United might claim to be in the Doldrums a bit at present but that is only in comparison to the almost relentless glory of the SAF years which in itself was more a blip even if it lasted 20 years.

And is London really doing that well? Tottenham haven't won a title since '61 and Arsenal since 2004 and I'd expect more from them than that. Chelsea have been very successful since Abramovich took over but that is out of character for them in a historical context so they do represent a shift.

The real decline in football's traditional heartlands and hot beds is in Yorkshire where everybody has been ordinary for a long time,around the Birmingham where football has arguably never been weaker - there's no serious contender in sight and there hasn't been for years - and Merseyside where it is a long time now since Liverpool (who also had an atypical 20 year success blip) and Everton were up there and challenging.

The Midlands is indeed very poor at the moment, only Pulis keeping the flag flying at WBA. Villa,Wolves and Birmingham struggling, Coventry a disaster-I suppose if you stretched eastwards then Leicester could be said to have bucked the trend. The real area of decline used to be Lancashire when all of the semi giants of the 1950's like Preston, Bolton, Burnley and Blackpool went into an apparently terminal down spiral, possibly due to changing economic scenarios and new avenues for players brought on by the maximum wage abolition and eventual freedom of contract.They have recovered to a greater or lesser degree though, who knows if the same may happen in due course in the Midlands.
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:40 am

The other 2 "midland" clubs would be Derby and Forest. Both currently about as low as they ever go. Leicester is very much the trend bucker.
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:05 am

Greenskin wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
beesrus wrote:
Like Skinny, I was weaned on rock steady 2nd division football with a real prospect of First division stuff. To me football success tends to follow either some lune of an owner or more often reflects the power and vibrancy of the area represented. Hence in the last 30 years post the demise of everything industrial, the power has moved South, and to London. Only Manchester has bucked the trend, which itself as a city has enjoyed  a revival in a way much of the North has not. Even the Beeb upsticked and settled there. In stark contrast, the demise of Sunderland and Newcastle is particularly noticeable.
Now, with migrant capital skewing the power, the South coast is on the rise in unthought of ways.....Bournemouth ffs.
There's no Janner Tiger here, no grand move South West of investment, and the navy has sunk without a trace. Like it or not, the South West is edging more and more to an unconnected low wage provincial tourism/retiree economy, where even the club owners are retiring bankers looking for a safe haven for their ill gotten. The club WILL reflect this.
Here endeth the same old haughty geopolitical lesson.

Are things really bad at present for Newcastle and Sunderland?

I don't think either has ever won the league. Well Newcastle might have waaaaaaay back (I'm unsure) but they've only really challenged once ("I'd love it" and all that) seriously that I recall in my lifetime. Both have been prone to yoyo-ing between the top division and the one below with an occasional bit of cup glory along the way (Newcastle have won the FA cup a few times - but again not recently).

Surely between them they are pretty much where they usually are?

I think, in a perverse way, Manchester got lucky when the IRA blew their town centre up. All of a sudden lots of buildings were instantly renovated creating an obviously visible vibe in the city and momentum was created where previously there had been very little. Basically a run down town centre became very trendy overnight and when the time came for the BBC to attempt to be less London-centric Manchester was the obvious destination.

And again over the years there has nearly always been either a City or United, sometimes both, somewhere near the top just as they are now so they are pretty much where you might expect them to be. I suppose United might claim to be in the Doldrums a bit at present but that is only in comparison to the almost relentless glory of the SAF years which in itself was more a blip even if it lasted 20 years.

And is London really doing that well? Tottenham haven't won a title since '61 and Arsenal since 2004 and I'd expect more from them than that. Chelsea have been very successful since Abramovich took over but that is out of character for them in a historical context so they do represent a shift.

The real decline in football's traditional heartlands and hot beds is in Yorkshire where everybody has been ordinary for a long time,around the Birmingham where football has arguably never been weaker - there's no serious contender in sight and there hasn't been for years - and Merseyside where it is a long time now since Liverpool (who also had an atypical 20 year success blip) and Everton were up there and challenging.

The Midlands is indeed very poor at the moment, only Pulis keeping the flag flying at WBA. Villa,Wolves and Birmingham struggling, Coventry a disaster-I suppose if you stretched eastwards then Leicester could be said to have bucked the trend. The real area of decline used to be Lancashire when all of the semi giants of the 1950's like Preston, Bolton, Burnley and Blackpool went into an apparently terminal down spiral, possibly due to changing economic scenarios and new avenues for players brought on by the maximum wage abolition and eventual freedom of contract.They have recovered to a greater or lesser degree though, who knows if the same may happen in due course in the Midlands.



Coventry are in a terrible mess, staring relegation right in the face and fans deserting them in droves. A former "biggy" side who are now becoming a distant "has been", where the tiddlers of the lower ponds take delight in showing up the once illustrious sky blues. They will not like it down in the most extreme place of the doldrums (or League Two as we know it as).

I understand that Coventry are to be backed by over 40,000 at Wembley for the Silly Cup Final (there was a chap from the EFL defending the trophy on the radio last night, hilarious). A post relegation jolly it would seem.

I can remember when Argyle played Coventry in the FA Cup back in '96. A good number of the Coventry fans who travelled down that day were arrogant and acted as if they were the bees knees compared to Argyle.

I for one hope Coventry City lose in the Silly Cup Final this coming weekend, and after suffering a humiliating relegation to League Two next season, find it much harder than they ever thought they would.
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:04 am

To me, while I'm buzzing around my hive, everything North of Bristol is the North in terms of industry and the professional football it spawned for relief from the drudgery. The midlands in general has bored the pants off football fans for decades now and even the mighty Villa ( I say mighty in an historic iconic sense ) are now not certain what they'll be in 10 years time.
I have also long thought the IRA thing was a one off touchpaper that lit the city's revival. No telling where positivity takes root, but capital investment certainly helps. Almost an old fashioned determined planned economy, heaven forbid. Who says it doesn't work.

In some ways it's all irrelevant I suppose, as the corporations and global tv markets seem fated to having a world club league in the not too distant future and all else might be irrelevant. Meaningful promotion and relegation for the provinces, or mobility of chance, as it will become known, will be consigned to the dustbin of liberal tom foolery, and it may all turn into some sort of extreme Rollerball circus with totally different rules where global billionaires call all the shots and pick all the characters. I don't expect football to last past it's eating itself stage.

One thing is certain though. All of this will pass by the two shires down here without so much of a breath of wind. Brent and Hallet will be long gone and consigned to the forgotten brick memorial like the rest of us. Argyle will be gone too, morphed into a phoenix Argaum of sorts playing some funny hybrid game dodging virtual sheep on a virtual dartmoor outskirt that may or may not have been glaciated in the big freeze.
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:38 am

VillageGreen wrote:

Coventry are in a terrible mess, staring relegation right in the face and fans deserting them in droves. A former "biggy" side who are now becoming a distant "has been", where the tiddlers of the lower ponds take delight in showing up the once illustrious sky blues. They will not like it down in the most extreme place of the doldrums (or League Two as we know it as).

I understand that Coventry are to be backed by over 40,000 at Wembley for the Silly Cup Final (there was a chap from the EFL defending the trophy on the radio last night, hilarious). A post relegation jolly it would seem.

I can remember when Argyle played Coventry in the FA Cup back in '96. A good number of the Coventry fans who travelled down that day were arrogant and acted as if they were the bees knees compared to Argyle.

I for one hope Coventry City lose in the Silly Cup Final this coming weekend, and after suffering a humiliating relegation to League Two next season, find it much harder than they ever thought they would.

I spent a fair bit of time in Coventry in the early 90's and it was certainly a very partisan town probably due to Birmingham looming large over them. Call a Coventrian a Brummie and watch them explode and this rubbed off onto their football club. They were a decent club to like, alright they had a hint of billy big boots about them but a daft home defeat would always put them back in their place.

At the time they were a good 25 years in the top league and only three clubs had a longer unbroken stint. When the premier league came along I think a good proportion of them thought they would remain there in perpetuity and the longer they stayed up the worse it got. They were one of the founders so they were one of the chosen. That '96 game did it for me too and though I would never wish this kind of descent on any fan it's telling that many of the original clubs on the margins at the time of premier league formation (inc. Oldham, Luton, Millwall, Oxford, Swindon) have suffered similarly. Coventry have just taken longer to get there.

What is it now for them - 50 years without a promotion, let alone a league title and just that one FA Cup. I'm sure they'll be banging on about that next season as it's all they've got to lord over a bunch of ex-non leaguers and perennial basement dwellers.

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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:16 am

Coventry City owe a lot of their sucess to Jimmy Hill. Whilst manager he changed the colours to Sky Blue, won Division 3 title followed shortly by Division 2, introduced the first colour match programme, built 2 new stands

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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:07 pm

Jimmy Hill was certainly an innovator.

Re: Manchester - it was already on the rise again pre-1996. People flocked there, particularly students, with the explosion of acid house, baggy et al in the late 80s. It's always had scale too, in a way most British cities just don't.
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:26 pm

Worth pointing out with Manchester once you venture out beyond the ring road its actually a bog standard Northern shithole. The BBC studios are also in Salford not Manchester.

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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:58 pm

Accrington boss Coleman hopes to get the 'result they deserve' against Plymouth Argyle

Accrington Stanley manager John Coleman is hoping that his team get the 'result they deserve' against Plymouth Argyle this time round, after getting nothing despite 'playing them off the park' last season.

The match Coleman speaks of finished 1-0 to the Pilgrims, with Reuben Reid getting the only goal of the game.

Stanley have been in superb form and they extended their unbeaten run to 11 games with a 2-0 win over Cambridge United on Saturday. Shay McCartan scored one of the two goals, his sixth in eight games during the month of March


Accrington skipper Seamus Conneely has recovered from an ankle injury and is expected to be fit for the visit to Home Park on Saturday. But Coleman won't necessarily bring him back into the starting XI, given their recent results.

"I have some big decisions to make – how do I change a team which played so well on Tuesday?" said Coleman.

"There are players pushing for a start but it will be difficult. Seamus is integral to what we do and the way we play and I hope he will be available for Saturday.

"We will be going there to win. Last year we played them off the park but didn't get the result I felt we deserved so hopefully this year we can get the result no matter how we play.

"Plymouth are a good side and will go up this season, I have no doubt about that, but the four teams above us play each other so we have a chance to make some ground on two of them on Saturday.

"The players have now got into the rhythm and go into every game believing they are going to score goals. It means the defence can relax more.

"Plymouth is a big test but the teams we have tended to fluff our lines against are the teams below us.

"We will do our homework on Plymouth but I know, when we play well, we are as good as any team in the league and we do feel our league position is false."

Stanley are seven points off of the League Two play-off places and Argyle manager Derek Adams, is aware of the threat they possess and expects a tougher game than they got against Doncaster last weekend.
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:14 pm

A Deadman in charge

Man in the Middle Darren Deadman has shown 139 yellows and 7 reds in 139 games

Will be assisted by Mark Derrien and Justin Amey

Fourth Official Simon Knapp
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:39 am

"Accrington Stanley manager John Coleman is hoping that his team get the 'result they deserve' against Plymouth Argyle this time round, after getting nothing despite 'playing them off the park' last season."

Depends how lucky we are and how well Luke plays
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:36 pm

2 - 1 win 10,406
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:44 pm

Late evening rush for tomorrow tickets

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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:44 am

I went for 11,675 elsewhere
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:57 am

Weather  forecast is good for today, car parking more harder as the Fun fair is in the park. It is the beginning of the school holidays.

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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:01 am

Routine, showboating 2 nil home win.
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Tgwu

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Posts : 8697
Join date : 2011-12-11
Age : 68
Location : plymouth

PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:21 am

Would you make any changes of the starting eleven from the last games?
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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:05 am

Tgwu wrote:
Weather  forecast is good for today, car parking more harder as the Fun fair is in the park. It is the beginning of the school holidays.

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Great work TG. An All-Inclusive matchday service. cheers

I predict a great day on the beer interspersed with a painful couple of hrs from 3-5pm drunken
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PostSubject: Re: Accy Stan....   

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Accy Stan....
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