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 Trust AGM 19th November

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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:57 pm

Keep up the anti-Trust stuff then. Slag Bob off all you like. Plug away endlessly at it. Do it more often even. Perhaps get nastier and nastier as you go...

Let's see if it gets you where you want to go.

Not that it has yet.

But keep on keeping on.

The first X times haven't worked but maybe the (X+1)th will.

You never know.
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Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:23 pm

I have nothing against Bob personally - seems like a nice guy...

But Bob resigning or being forced out is the only way the Trust is going to get anywhere.  He is a completely ineffectual leader.  

The sooner that happens the better for everyone.  Only the likes of you, Zyph and Newell seem to disagree.  What fine company to be in...
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Hugh Watt
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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:26 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Keep up the anti-Trust stuff then. Slag Bob off all you like. Plug away endlessly at it. Do it more often even. Perhaps get nastier and nastier as you go...

Let's see if it gets you where you want to go.

Not that it has yet.

But keep on keeping on.

The first X times haven't worked but maybe the (X+1)th will.

You never know.

Not that this will change your mind one bit as you've already made up your mind which way you want this thread to pan out, but nobody on this site is anti-trust. You've made that up. I haven't seen any 'nasty' abuse as you put it either, concern and frustration yes, nastiness no.

The general consensus is trust good, Leadership inept.


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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:50 pm

Just to add once again, being exempt from criticism almost purely because you aren't drawing a salary in a position of 'Trust' is a piss weak argument Franny.

I'm currently dealing with a workplace situation whereby some Union reps are getting absolutely roasted by their electorate for, amongst other things, lack of backbone, balls, and not having the stomach for a fight.

When you put yourself up for election to these sort of positions, whether it be a Union rep or a Trust Leader, you are going to be held to account if your electorate aren't happy with your performance. Simple as that.
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Hugh Watt
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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:39 pm

There comes a point where having someone as fundamentally shit at something is worse than having nothing at all

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zyph

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:17 pm

Rickler wrote:
I have nothing against Bob personally - seems like a nice guy...

But Bob resigning or being forced out is the only way the Trust is going to get anywhere.  He is a completely ineffectual leader.  

The sooner that happens the better for everyone.  Only the likes of you, Zyph and Newell seem to disagree.  What fine company to be in...



Surely a few dissenters on a website such as this will not be seen as anywhere near a majority of opinion for Bob or his Committee to step down.....the silent majority have far more patience for the AFT Committee who they see as doing a difficult job in the time that they personally can give in the time at their disposal.

Chipping away at the AFT all the time like you do is more beneficial to James Brent than for the cause of supporters.
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Homeslice

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:10 am

There's not been a single word uttered in this debate that's anti the concept of a Fans Trust. Broadly speaking, every individual who's posted on this thread is in favour of the Trust. No-one is 'chipping away at the AFT'.

The problem is the weakness of the current Chairman.

The one simple fact - that he and his Board colleagues have failed to organise the AGM - would be enough for any Chairman with an ounce of honour about him to tender his resignation. It's fundamental, it's something that should have been in the diary from the last AGM, and it's been treated as if it doesn't matter. It does.

There are other issues, as have been outlined in this thread. But what is not at issue is the broad support for the Argyle Fans' Trust from posters on this site. It's the Chairman that people have issues with, and SFD, Zyph and some others need to realise that, before they take the debate in entirely the wrong direction.
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zyph

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:01 am

Chipping away at the Committee is chipping away at the AFT...you cannot seperate one from the other...your undermining the Trust and saying that James Brent is right in his approach to fans/members by not being involved with them and doing his own thing.
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:05 am

Good grief. Who is saying that Brent is right to ignore the trust?
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zyph

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:12 am

Les Miserable wrote:
Good grief. Who is saying that Brent is right to ignore the trust?

But he does do, that because he feels that only so much should be shared with the AFT....typical business procedure.
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Homeslice

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:24 am

zyph wrote:
Chipping away at the Committee is chipping away at the AFT...you cannot seperate one from the other...your undermining the Trust and saying that James Brent is right in his approach to fans/members by not being involved with them and doing his own thing.

This is just nonsense.

No-one has said that they think Brent is right in the way he's handled fan engagement. Show me where they have?
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:13 am

Bob is only the latest in what seems to me to be an unreasonably long line of AFT chairs and vice-chairs.

Off the top of my head the previous Trust leaders include Chris Webb, Graham Clark, Andy Symons and Bob Foale (have I missed anybody?). If we ignore Bob for moment most of the previous Trust leaders have been subject to either ridicule or abuse leading to their removal or departure (and in some instances all 4).

The effect on the Trust of all of them leaving was to in some way weaken the AFT: Webb took his 30 pieces of silver and couldn't jump ship quickly enough; Clark cited work pressures (if I recall accurately); Symons was viciously abused before stepping aside... Even the vice-chairs (so far as I recall once again) have stepped aside. JBE, John Petrie (another who was disgustingly abused), Sam Down, Tim Chown, Lee Jameson (was he ever a vice-chair? no matter if he wasn't) are all noticeable for their current absence.

Obviously each case has its own reasons for the discontinuation of involvement and for the best part I don't consider the departures to have been made for anything other than reasons that are fully justifiable and I know a little more about one of them in particular than, so far as I am aware, is common knowledge (don't bother asking because I won't blab) and if the same circumstances applied to me I would have done exactly the same.

The major point, however, remains: virtually every person occupying a senior position within the AFT is no longer involved at anything like the same level; they have all either chosen to disengage or have been driven out.

Which leads us to Bob as the current incumbent. I have no idea what his intentions are but the chances are he'll remain AFT chair should he wish to because, as evidenced on this thread, those critical of him have no intention of putting themselves forward. The effect of that will be that there probably won't be any need for an election because there'll be fewer candidates than positions meaning anybody interested will sit on the AFT board and from those people a new AFT chair will be chosen and chances are that it'll be Bob again should he want to do it because it doesn't appear that any of the others currently in place want to.

Should this outcome occur then those critical of Bob will no doubt continue their criticism. That criticism will either be ignored just like it is now or get in the way of doing whatever it is that really ought to be done. Either way the interests of AFT will not be best served, it'll be weakened and Brent will be given an easier ride than might otherwise be the case because the chair and by extension AFT is seen as "wrong" in some way.

Which was exactly what the wider aim was when "people close to the club" set about bribing, undermining and abusing with a view to eventually removing the previous, less contentious and, arguably, more effective Trust officials.

Isn't all of this blindingly obvious to everybody?


Last edited by Sir Francis Drake on Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:21 am

zyph wrote:
Les Miserable wrote:
Good grief. Who is saying that Brent is right to ignore the trust?

But he does do, that because he feels that only so much should be shared with the AFT....typical business procedure.

No. I don't agree.

He doesn't even think "so much" should be shared with anybody under any circumstances. The legally permissible bare minimum is the maximum amount he is happy willing obliged to share. The rest has to be dragged kicking and screaming from him.


Last edited by Sir Francis Drake on Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am; edited 2 times in total
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:24 am

Czarcasm wrote:
Just to add once again, being exempt from criticism almost purely because you aren't drawing a salary in a position of 'Trust' is a piss weak argument Franny.

I'm currently dealing with a workplace situation whereby some Union reps are getting absolutely roasted by their electorate for, amongst other things, lack of backbone, balls, and not having the stomach for a fight.

When you put yourself up for election to these sort of positions, whether it be a Union rep or a Trust Leader, you are going to be held to account if your electorate aren't happy with your performance. Simple as that.

Union reps are paid to be there (or at least to do union work in company time) too.
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:13 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Obviously each case has its own reasons for the discontinuation of involvement and for the best part I don't consider the departures to have been made for anything other than reasons that are fully justifiable and I know a little more about one of them in particular than, so far as I am aware, is common knowledge (don't bother asking because I won't blab)


lol Why mention it then? Just can't help yourself can you? He's in the know you know raised eyebrow
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:35 pm

Les Miserable wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Obviously each case has its own reasons for the discontinuation of involvement and for the best part I don't consider the departures to have been made for anything other than reasons that are fully justifiable and I know a little more about one of them in particular than, so far as I am aware, is common knowledge (don't bother asking because I won't blab)


lol  Why mention it then?  Just can't help yourself can you?  He's in the know you know raised eyebrow

I mentioned it because I am aware of one case, and there may be others that I know nothing about, where the reasons for standing down are extremely personal and entirely understandable and to explicitly highlight the fact that I am not critical of all of those who are no longer involved.

This isn't gossip or hearsay. The person concerned knows that I know because it was that same person that told me and for what it is worth they have my complete support (not that it makes a jot of difference either way) for their decision.
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Hugh Watt
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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:01 pm

zyph wrote:
Chipping away at the Committee is chipping away at the AFT...you cannot seperate one from the other...your undermining the Trust and saying that James Brent is right in his approach to fans/members by not being involved with them and doing his own thing.

Rubbish.

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zyph

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:14 pm

Hugh Watt wrote:
zyph wrote:
Chipping away at the Committee is chipping away at the AFT...you cannot seperate one from the other...your undermining the Trust and saying that James Brent is right in his approach to fans/members by not being involved with them and doing his own thing.

Rubbish.


My opinion, which on this website is still allowed I trust.
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Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:23 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
s.

Off the top of my head the previous Trust leaders include Chris Webb, Graham Clark, Andy Symons and Bob Foale (have I missed anybody?). If we ignore Bob for moment most of the previous Trust leaders have been subject to either ridicule or abuse leading to their removal or departure (and in some instances all 4).

Yes...  You missed Warren Bowden.  Remember the circumstances under which he left?

As for Webb and Symons.  Well the first was a traitor and Symons deserves all the abuse he got.  Unwilling to listen. Totally self serving and the debacle of  the sponsoring deal with the club should have seen him thrown out for incompetence.  Bob is an inept complete waste of time.

So that leaves Graham Clark as the only worthy chairman in my opinion, and therefore the only one that's been any sort of loss.

You make it so the others sound as if we lost Churchill.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:25 pm

I remember the circumstances. I just forgot him.
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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:38 pm

There really are few less endearing traits to possess, than having to be right - all the time.
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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:37 pm

zyph wrote:
Hugh Watt wrote:
zyph wrote:
Chipping away at the Committee is chipping away at the AFT...you cannot seperate one from the other...your undermining the Trust and saying that James Brent is right in his approach to fans/members by not being involved with them and doing his own thing.

Rubbish.


My opinion, which on this website is still allowed I trust.

And its mine that your post is rubbish.

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zyph

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:45 am

Hugh Watt wrote:
zyph wrote:
Hugh Watt wrote:
zyph wrote:
Chipping away at the Committee is chipping away at the AFT...you cannot seperate one from the other...your undermining the Trust and saying that James Brent is right in his approach to fans/members by not being involved with them and doing his own thing.

Rubbish.


My opinion, which on this website is still allowed I trust.

And its mine that your post is rubbish.


You've destroyed my belief in the Three Musketeers motto of .......All for one and one for all....(I feel depressed now)......by attacking the AFT's leader are you not in fact attacking the organization....in this case the AFT.
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Dick Trickle



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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:01 am

Are you serious?

He's not criticising the Trust as a model at all, just the people currently running it. There is a complete and total difference.

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zyph

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:39 am

Beg to differ....tainted by association.
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