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 Trust AGM 19th November

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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:31 pm

If you were Bob would you bother coming on here knowing for sure that every last word is going to be ripped to bits?

And if you don't like what he does or how he does it then quitting the trust is hardly the way to improve matters, is it?

If you think you could do better then put yourself forward and prove that you can.
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Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:56 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
If you were Bob would you bother coming on here knowing for sure that every last word is going to be ripped to bits?


There's a reason for that.. He seems to be unable to back up anything he says.

He recently made the claim he had asked PAFC about the GT debt - Then why did Bob Foale never release the details on what was said? I asked him for details. The request was ignored. Personally, I don't believe him. The trusts very own secretary (Steelcannon) certainly knew nothing of what allegedly was said about the GT's debt as he was prepared to ask questions at the meeting until Brent brought the subject up - due to my question being submitted by email.

Bob sadly, is completely inept as AFT leader and should step down before he damages it beyond repair.

The leadership of the AFT must be media savvy, quick thinking and aware, and quite honestly Bob is still in the stone age.





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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:18 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
If you were Bob would you bother coming on here knowing for sure that every last word is going to be ripped to bits?

And if you don't like what he does or how he does it then quitting the trust is hardly the way to improve matters, is it?

If you think you could do better then put yourself forward and prove that you can.

The last bit is a silly comment Franny. By the same reckoning, if you aren't prepared to put yourself forward for election, for example, as a Councillor or an MP, then you aren't qualified to criticize what they say or do. Which of course is bollocks.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:53 pm

Czarcasm wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
If you were Bob would you bother coming on here knowing for sure that every last word is going to be ripped to bits?

And if you don't like what he does or how he does it then quitting the trust is hardly the way to improve matters, is it?

If you think you could do better then put yourself forward and prove that you can.

The last bit is a silly comment Franny. By the same reckoning, if you aren't prepared to put yourself forward for election, for example, as a Councillor or an MP, then you aren't qualified to criticize what they say or do. Which of course is bollocks.

And that is a cop out.

Whoever the AFT people are they volunteer their time, stick their heads above the parapet and take flak from all directions. I don't know what it is that makes them want to do it.

There's not even any need for Brent to think about unleashing the Nooligans to sideline the Trust, is there? It's all laid out on a plate for him.

Brent must be absolutely laughing his cock off as people seemingly unhappy with him make his scheming easier and easier by constantly slagging the Trust off.

Anyway guys you all carry on undermining the trust as a body and the individuals trying to do something for it. Good job. Well done. I hope you are pleased with your efforts.
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Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:34 pm

No free speech allowed then, eh Frannie.

Typical overly dramatic response from you - who has no hesitation "slagging" off anything that damn well pleases you!

You need to realize why the trust is being "slagged off".  The leadership it totally inept for the modern media age.

You should be in the job - you'd  be perfect!
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:42 pm

That would be hilarious.
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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:47 pm

How is it a cop out? For me the analogy couldn't be more valid.

You're basically saying the Trust and its leadership should have a criticism exemption.

Shorely what'd be far more constructive would be for criticisms to be addressed and acted on, rather than ignored.
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Hugh Watt



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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:04 am

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
If you were Bob would you bother coming on here knowing for sure that every last word is going to be ripped to bits?

And if you don't like what he does or how he does it then quitting the trust is hardly the way to improve matters, is it?

If you think you could do better then put yourself forward and prove that you can.

That's utter bollocks, we have been very supportive of the trust throughout its being. As for Bob, we have been very supportive of him when he has shown a bit of gumption and refused to allow himself to be bullied by the club. By the way, his every word gets ripped to shreds over on the farm and it doesn't stop him responding instantly the minute Postcode asks a question does it. So again, nonsense from you.

As a leader of the trust he has been dreadful, unable to organise a meeting, minutes or communicate effectively and honestly with anyone.

Saying "if you don't like it put yourself forward" is a cop out. I won't put myself forward because I wouldn't be any good at it, I wouldn't apply to manage the football club either, does that mean I am not allowed to criticise it from time to time?
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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:45 am

It's not as if there's not plenty of past form which tells potential Trust Board members what to expect. Throughout its brief history, Trust Chairs and Board members have been sniped at, abused, undermined and briefed against. It's just that usually the attacks come from de Lar and Newell on pasoti.

The criticisms of Bob on here are valid. If he'd fronted up, answered those criticisms and engaged with posters on here, he'd not be getting anything like as hard a time as he is. As it is, too often when he's posted on here, he's been dismissive, condescending and hypocritical.

The Trust at the moment is in its death throes. Frank Bullitt has it right - the Board should be doing all it can to encourage participation, and with only 3 (?) current Board members the AGM should have been priority 1. Get the Board back up to strength and go forward, refreshed and reinvigorated, hopefully under a Chairman who can command the support of the memberships.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:50 am

How much of the above would you be willing to engage with before you simply gave up trying? I'd've reached the end of my tether long before they have (if they have - I'm only guessing). Maybe they'll respond soon... I don't know.

And I am not suggesting that the AFT should not be scrutinised or criticised simply that it should be given chance to get on with what it does. Maybe if the problems that were highlighted were accompanied by a suggestion for a solution that might help? I can't think why anybody would be averse to constructive criticism but that's not the impression I get from many of the posts on here.

And the councillor/MP/football manager allegory does not hold. Those are positions that people are paid to fill and for most it is a career path; the AFTers are volunteers trying to fulfill a thankless remit. There is a world of difference.

Still keep on chipping away all you like but don't pretend that you haven't been told you're doing Brent's dirty work for him - because whether you like it or not you are.
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:10 am

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Still keep on chipping away all you like but don't pretend that you haven't been told you're doing Brent's dirty work for him - because whether you like it or not you are.


What utter drivel.
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zyph

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:17 am

So....ATD is always right in it's assessment.....AFT is there to be kicked, bullied, told what to do.....because it doesn't think like those on this website.

What a thankless task it is to be a AFT committee member.....caught in the middle of a war against James Brent and Co.

Now if we where a high flying club....top of the league.....best start since the 1920's things would obviously be different......Oh hold on a minute we are all of that and more.....there's nothing so strange as folk is there.

Now if that had been us beating Barcelona 3-1 last night all would be all right wouldn't it........ well maybe that ain't what matters is it.....don't let success on the pitch stop a good moan....that would be a disaster wouldn't it.
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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:20 am

"high flying club" in the shittest division, I cant wait till the 19th to witness the mega game with the mighty Grimsby.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:33 am

Les Miserable wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Still keep on chipping away all you like but don't pretend that you haven't been told you're doing Brent's dirty work for him - because whether you like it or not you are.


What utter drivel.

Stick your fingers in your ears and shout "la la la la la can't hear you" all you like.

It changes nothing.
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:42 am

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Les Miserable wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Still keep on chipping away all you like but don't pretend that you haven't been told you're doing Brent's dirty work for him - because whether you like it or not you are.


What utter drivel.

Stick your fingers in your ears and shout "la la la la la can't hear you" all you like.

It changes nothing.


You're the one doing that by failing to question or acknowledge the shortcomings of the current Trust leadership, say nothing(rare for you) and hope for the best eh?
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:54 am

I'm doing no such thing.

What I am doing is pointing out that the relentless criticism and vitriol aimed at AFT has clearly led to them disengaging with communication on this site to which the response is further criticism and vitriol.

Well the criticism and vitriol failed before, is failing now and will continue to fail with the only beneficiary being Mr Brent who gets a free ride to do as he pleases while it goes on.

If you actually want to achieve your aims (assuming you have some) being an anonymous, wizened old cynic obviously isn't going to succeed because you'll (speaking generally not individually) just be cut off and ignored.

Just like you are now.
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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:48 am

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
I'm doing no such thing.

What I am doing is pointing out that the relentless criticism and vitriol aimed at AFT has clearly led to them disengaging with communication on this site to which the response is further criticism and vitriol.

Well the criticism and vitriol failed before, is failing now and will continue to fail with the only beneficiary being Mr Brent who gets a free ride to do as he pleases while it goes on.

If you actually want to achieve your aims (assuming you have some) being an anonymous, wizened old cynic obviously isn't going to succeed because you'll (speaking generally not individually) just be cut off and ignored.

Just like you are now.

As usual you choose to ignore what suits whatever blinkered position you hold at any given time.

1) This forum has been broadly supportive of the AFT offering them a forum space when other forums churlishly denied them that.
2) Bob has been a shit leader regardless of what has or hasn't been said, no one takes the trust seriously any more. Membership is declining, they can't even seem to organise a meeting or even what their position is on any given issue. Bob signed the NA statement then
3) His attitude on here is dismissive, patrician and condescending whichgets peoples backs up
4) He's been given just as much vitriol from PASOTI, yet strangely is far more accommodating

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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:58 am

I'd like to think that any criticism that I've levelled at the trust has been balanced and imo justified, nodding donkeys need not apply.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:28 pm

Hugh Watt wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
I'm doing no such thing.

What I am doing is pointing out that the relentless criticism and vitriol aimed at AFT has clearly led to them disengaging with communication on this site to which the response is further criticism and vitriol.

Well the criticism and vitriol failed before, is failing now and will continue to fail with the only beneficiary being Mr Brent who gets a free ride to do as he pleases while it goes on.

If you actually want to achieve your aims (assuming you have some) being an anonymous, wizened old cynic obviously isn't going to succeed because you'll (speaking generally not individually) just be cut off and ignored.

Just like you are now.

As usual you choose to ignore what suits whatever blinkered position you hold at any given time.

1) This forum has been broadly supportive of the AFT offering them a forum space when other forums churlishly denied them that.
2) Bob has been a shit leader regardless of what has or hasn't been said, no one takes the trust seriously any more. Membership is declining, they can't even seem to organise a meeting or even what their position is on any given issue. Bob signed the NA statement then
3) His attitude on here is dismissive, patrician and condescending whichgets peoples backs up
4) He's been given just as much vitriol from PASOTI, yet strangely is far more accommodating


I've no idea what goes on on Pasoti. I gave up on it years ago when the direction of travel became completely obvious.

It almost beats me as to why AFT bothers to use Pasoti at all except its reasons for doing so are fairly obvious given the historic role that Pasoti has within the Argyle fraternity and that's something that ATD will never have which doesn't really matter because, as far as I can see, it isn't something that ATD aspires to as a concept anyway.

And for what it is worth I don't think "ATD" has a particular policy one way or another regarding the trust - which is exactly how things should be. Perhaps I'm wrong. Admittedly there hasn't been the squalid long-term sidelining of it from senior level that we saw on Pasoti but I'm not sure that simply behaving reasonably, admirable though that is, constitutes having an actual policy.

It's just that I've seen so many "I'm quitting the trust if they don't..." or "I'm not renewing my membership because... " flouncey posts from people on here that I've lost all patience with them. Can't imagine why anybody is even bothering to comment about what a members-based organisation they want no membership of does or says or doesn't do or say.
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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:25 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Hugh Watt wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
I'm doing no such thing.

What I am doing is pointing out that the relentless criticism and vitriol aimed at AFT has clearly led to them disengaging with communication on this site to which the response is further criticism and vitriol.

Well the criticism and vitriol failed before, is failing now and will continue to fail with the only beneficiary being Mr Brent who gets a free ride to do as he pleases while it goes on.

If you actually want to achieve your aims (assuming you have some) being an anonymous, wizened old cynic obviously isn't going to succeed because you'll (speaking generally not individually) just be cut off and ignored.

Just like you are now.

As usual you choose to ignore what suits whatever blinkered position you hold at any given time.

1) This forum has been broadly supportive of the AFT offering them a forum space when other forums churlishly denied them that.
2) Bob has been a shit leader regardless of what has or hasn't been said, no one takes the trust seriously any more. Membership is declining, they can't even seem to organise a meeting or even what their position is on any given issue. Bob signed the NA statement then
3) His attitude on here is dismissive, patrician and condescending whichgets peoples backs up
4) He's been given just as much vitriol from PASOTI, yet strangely is far more accommodating


I've no idea what goes on on Pasoti. I gave up on it years ago when the direction of travel became completely obvious.

It almost beats me as to why AFT bothers to use Pasoti at all except its reasons for doing so are fairly obvious given the historic role that Pasoti has within the Argyle fraternity and that's something that ATD will never have which doesn't really matter because, as far as I can see, it isn't something that ATD aspires to as a concept anyway.

And for what it is worth I don't think "ATD" has a particular policy one way or another regarding the trust - which is exactly how things should be. Perhaps I'm wrong. Admittedly there hasn't been the squalid long-term sidelining of it from senior level that we saw on Pasoti but I'm not sure that simply behaving reasonably, admirable though that is, constitutes having an actual policy.

It's just that I've seen so many "I'm quitting the trust if they don't..." or "I'm not renewing my membership because... " flouncey posts from people on here that I've lost all patience with them. Can't imagine why anybody is even bothering to comment about what a members-based organisation they want no membership of does or says or doesn't do or say.

It isn't just a members based organisation though is it.
ATD website wrote:

"The AFT is a legally established supporter group representing fans of Plymouth Argyle"

It says fans not members. I support their core aims which are also available on their website, its just they are doing a lousy job of carrying them out.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:08 pm

So amongst everything else it is to be criticised for not representing fans (not that it has said it won't - that was only me, and I am not the AFT) who have relinquished membership because they do not want to be represented by it?

Like I said they just can't win no matter what.
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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:18 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Hugh Watt wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
I'm doing no such thing.

What I am doing is pointing out that the relentless criticism and vitriol aimed at AFT has clearly led to them disengaging with communication on this site to which the response is further criticism and vitriol.

Well the criticism and vitriol failed before, is failing now and will continue to fail with the only beneficiary being Mr Brent who gets a free ride to do as he pleases while it goes on.

If you actually want to achieve your aims (assuming you have some) being an anonymous, wizened old cynic obviously isn't going to succeed because you'll (speaking generally not individually) just be cut off and ignored.

Just like you are now.

As usual you choose to ignore what suits whatever blinkered position you hold at any given time.

1) This forum has been broadly supportive of the AFT offering them a forum space when other forums churlishly denied them that.
2) Bob has been a shit leader regardless of what has or hasn't been said, no one takes the trust seriously any more. Membership is declining, they can't even seem to organise a meeting or even what their position is on any given issue. Bob signed the NA statement then
3) His attitude on here is dismissive, patrician and condescending whichgets peoples backs up
4) He's been given just as much vitriol from PASOTI, yet strangely is far more accommodating


Perhaps I'm wrong.

Agreed.
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Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:22 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
So amongst everything else it is to be criticised for not representing fans (not that it has said it won't - that was only me, and I am not the AFT) who have relinquished membership because they do not want to be represented by it?

Like I said they just can't win no matter what.


...and just because you say something it doesn't make it true.

As has been proved time after time.

Trying to make the case that anyone who criticizes the AFT is somehow one of Brent's Bitches is laughable.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:33 pm

I didn't say you were one of "Brent's Bitches" but since you put it that way you might as well be one because the effect is the same no matter how much you deny it.
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Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: Trust AGM 19th November   Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:50 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
I didn't say you were one of "Brent's Bitches" but since you put it that way you might as well be one because the effect is the same no matter how much you deny it.

Rickler wrote:


...and just because you say something it doesn't make it true.

As has been proved time after time.

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